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Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

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Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

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Total Votes : 30

Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Mo on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:11 pm

I don't favor any distributor over another.

I will let you guys decide. Do you guys think Cal Tools should be allowed to be an advertiser on this forum?
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Freemind1 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:18 am

So long as we are allowed to give HONEST feedback and opinion of products and vendors, why would anyone here really care WHO advertises here?

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by milspec6 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:40 am

Any vendor should be allowed to advertise here as long as they do so in an honest fashion. This isn't a flea market for snake oil salesman and we should demand an honest representation of their products...that should not be a problem for anyone conducting themselves in an honest fashion.

In this specific case, his tools need to be presented as his own and on its own merit...names included. There was a time a few years ago when he claimed to make all of Joe's wands and lead buyers to believe that he was selling the same exact wand for half the price (even used photos staged in the same fashion to the point that even Joe thought they were his wands for a minute)....all BS and criminal.

There is a market for his tools and I am not going to say to exclude any vendor as long as he comes here to present and sell his products in an honest fashion. Present the tools for what they are: Based on the design of another, with a few changes, under his own name, and with their own merits. Then sure, accept him as an advertiser.

If he is not willing to do that, then this board does not need him. I don't think that is asking too much.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Pro Touch on Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:34 am

I agree with Milspec, this place should be open to anyone and it's always nice to give someone a chance but I don't think he will change.

Mo, I accidentally voted yes. I didn't even mean to vote. Can you change my vote to a no or just rescind it?
Thanks.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Mo on Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:18 pm

Eric the polls are confidential and I can't see them or edit them. I didn't vote so I'll go ahead and vote No on your behalf and that will make to vote 8 Yes and 9 No after that vote.

But can I ask why you didn't want to vote?



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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Pro Touch on Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:26 pm

I didn't want to vote because I'm split down the middle on this one. On the one hand, everyone should have the right to advertise here. The members will decide who has merit and who doesn't. On the other hand, knowing that this person is using another manufacturers model designations, perhaps making direct copies of their products and advertising them as the originals but at a savings is not right. It appears that this person is pathologically dishonest.
Is it enough to change the names of the tools and advertise them on their own merits?

I like to think that everyone deserves a second chance and should be given an opportunity to change, but I just don't think that will happen. It would be nice to be wrong though. That's just my good nature.

In the end, is it any of my business who you bring on board to advertise here?




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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by procarpet on Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:28 pm

I agree that any HONEST advertiser should be allowed to post here. My greatest fear is that some advertisers are out to take hard earned money out of honest cleaner's pockets. While common sense should prevail in equipment and chemical purchases, that is not always the case for struggling owners. Ultimately, you the cleaner, are responsible for your own purchases, but its unfair to tempt someone without the monetary resources for a proper tool with an inferior product. That said, I'm not an admin and I don't contribute nearly as often as a lot of you, so take my opinion as you will.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Fuzzsucker on Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:45 pm

My two cents. If they want a banner ad, they should pay. There should be one advertiser per industry. I also think we should have a separate topic section for advertisers to post on for free. Up to once a every two weeks or something to mention a special. No discrimination or otherwise discussing what they are advertising from members on the posts there. You have to be signed in to read them. It would draw distributors here to use the free advertising section and bring in new members to read it. They would have no say over what we discuss in the rest of the lounge. They are welcome to give helpful insights, but no spammy advertising for themselves. Just an idea.
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by SCCC on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:47 pm

I think you guys should allow people to advertise here. Even if JOE hates them. This is why, they advertise they in turn tell people about your board. If there tool or product is good from your reviews on it YOU KNOW they are going to direct guys to come here and read YOUR GUYS HONEST REVIEWS right??
Now what JOE doesn't seem to get is this
They come here to look at reviews... OH what is Soil n Oils wow it has a lot of good reviews.. Hey how can it get this great product??
Oh wow what is this Hot Rod tool?? Wow look at what the guys are saying about this tool. How do I get one of those??
That is how it is supposed to work. Running off all sponsors is only leaving a small group to see what is here....How many of you know already what color shirt Hot Rod guy is wearing????
What is the point of Hot Rod paying his dues if the board is NOT helping him in return?
Joe is RICH he does it for fun he is running a monopoly on this forum if other sponsors are not allowed
But Hot Rod want to sell his product to who???....So far you have 22 votes will this forum reach 100 votes?? How many people are really here.
I talked to Tony and I told him it doesn't matter if you sell a product for 99.00 or 499.00 if it doesn't work or it has problems they are STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR IT !!
People are not going to give Joe,Tony or any manufacturer any break if there product doesn't work no matter what the cost period.
You guys can set it strait right here right now let Tony sponsor if his tools are no good the reviews will show it and he will be gone plain and simple.
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by procarpet on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:52 pm

No one ever said there couldn't be advertising. This is about fraudulent advertising and blatant knock offs. Advertising pays the bills and motivates the moderators. It also keeps us informed on potentially useful products and that's beneficial to all.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by milspec6 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:38 pm

This is the fundamental conflict I have between the way other boards operate and the way we have been to this point....it isn't about the money. Moderators aren't paid anything and members aren't being given perks to give a favorable review of a product.

I don't want to attack any of the other boards, they can do as they choose, but how often can you read a thread over there where an advertiser or endorsed member isn't muddying the responses? How is that Zipper doing over there...still the greatest tool in the world?

I really shouldn't even have said this, but this whole thing is getting to me. This is a bunch of good honest cleaners getting together to hang out and talk shop...at least I hope it still remains that way.

If we adopt the same model as the other boards, why shouldn't we just become members of the other boards? Why would this place even exist?

Let any / all vendors come that want to join in a unique experience of industry members wanting to share and learn from each other. Didn't they all start out as cleaners themselves? When did they become just about the money and their sales? Ever wonder why a product seems to hit the market without any decent field testing....maybe they need a place like this to get back to their roots?

I've said enough, and definitely veered off the road on this topic, I do apologize for that. I didn't vote on this either, because it all depends on Tony. If he comes in here with an honest representation and wants to share, then Yes. The man clearly can weld and seems to be churning out a lot tools. If he is just seeing dollar signs and exposure, then No.
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Mo on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:39 pm

No Thomas you got it wrong. The main focus of the Lounge having advertisers on this forum is so that we can evaluate and test their products before we buy them not so that we can get more members from them.

Don't get me wrong more cleaners participating is a good thing but that is not our main focus. We have tested and evaluated the SS Upholstery Tool, The Zipper, The Hot Rod, etc so that we can give other cleaners a heads up on what we think of the tool.

When I see "we" test the tool I mean the members not just the Administrator or Moderators but the members. Go to MB or TMF and see if those guys are sending these tools to there members for testing. It's not happening

Your reasoning is contradictive because If our main focus was for the distributors to send cleaners to the lounge we would have to give positive reviews on the tools that they donate for testing. Right.

Now I noticed that you yelled " YOUR GUYS HONEST REVIEWS" I trust you were not insinuating that we don't?

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Not the cleaners lounge were we have the most members and advertisers

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Mo on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:43 pm

Rob we posted at the same time. Don't apologize for anything in fact do more of it Very Happy
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Freemind1 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:47 pm

How many of you have ACTUALLY bought a wand from Tony?

I HAVE. I have used the wand, and it works just like it should. I've had ZERO problems with it. Nope, it's not a Ti wand, big surprise? It looks nice, is built reasonable well for the money, and it WORKS.

Let's not forget, Joe was selling Tony's wands at one time and even having him drop ship them. Tony has offered a loaner. So that should say SOMETHING about it.

If you guys don't want him to advertise here, I guess Mo is leaving it in your hands. Not gonna stop from buying from him. His stuff is good in my book.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by milspec6 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:54 pm

I have one tool of Tony's...he told me it was Joe's. Again, that was a couple of years ago and we all change in time.

The man can weld and he clearly knows how to produce product...both valuable skills. I don't want to discourage him, instead, I want to see him produce HIS designs and then he will really have a great enterprise.

If he takes the honest road on this, he can get some great feedback which can propel him towards his own innovations and wouldn't that be great? The offer of a loaner is a good sign, but will he take the next step?
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by procarpet on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:44 pm

^^If that's how he approaches things on the future I see no problem with him posting hips products.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by SCCC on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:45 pm

Mo wrote:No Thomas you got it wrong. The main focus of the Lounge having advertisers on this forum is so that we can evaluate and test their products before we buy them not so that we can get more members from them.

Don't get me wrong more cleaners participating is a good thing but that is not our main focus. We have tested and evaluated the SS Upholstery Tool, The Zipper, The Hot Rod, etc so that we can give other cleaners a heads up on what we think of the tool.

When I see "we" test the tool I mean the members not just the Administrator or Moderators but the members. Go to MB or TMF and see if those guys are sending these tools to there members for testing. It's not happening

Your reasoning is contradictive because If our main focus was for the distributors to send cleaners to the lounge we would have to give positive reviews on the tools that they donate for testing. Right.

Now I noticed that you yelled " YOUR GUYS HONEST REVIEWS" I trust you were not insinuating that we don't?

The Cleaners Lounge

"Were Cleaners Connect , Learn, & Prosper

Not the cleaners lounge were we have the most members and advertisers

Sorry if that came across the wrong way but yes the sponsor would loan the tools to the members in a loaner /floater program to the REAL CLEANERS that is what I meant in YOUR HONEST REVIEW as in the the LOUNGE as a group.
When the group gets to try and a review is then in place if it is good of course the mani is going to send guys over to see the HONEST review of his tool if the tool flops he will not have a leg to stand on and be exsposed as a fake and be gone.
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by SCCC on Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:27 pm

milspec6 wrote:I have one tool of Tony's...he told me it was Joe's.  Again, that was a couple of years ago and we all change in time.

The man can weld and he clearly knows how to produce product...both valuable skills.  I don't want to discourage him, instead, I want to see him produce HIS designs and then he will really have a great enterprise.

If he takes the honest road on this, he can get some great feedback which can propel him towards his own innovations and wouldn't that be great?  The offer of a loaner is a good sign, but will he take the next step?
This is my point he wants to loan, if the tool comes back hey Tony this needs to be done "I can do that I will go back and make adjustments to it...I am back for the loaner with my improvements like you guys suggested"
Hey the tool is great take it to market sell it for what you want look forward to your next loaner.
Tony has said I need to get it in hands to test first I should have done that I should have field tested first.
This is a guy WHO sounds like he is TRYING to do the right thing but if you guys don't give him a chance then calling him a copy cat and other things is really not fair because he didn't get a chance to do it.
Joe and him have issues Joe and I have issues.
Joe does NOT HAND make the tools he get it done and that is good not knocking him in any way.
The difference is Joe is in a way i the middle man.
I think Tony is the man and because of that if he chooses he could sell for less than Joe that is up to Tony.
So say Tony listens makes the improvements and then sells the wands for 399.00 That is not greedy at all
He makes his cut.
Joe does same wand (just say) but he has to use someone to make it he comes to market at 599.00
and Joe gets his cut.
They both are really getting the same cut.

My gut sunk hit the floor when I was told how much my filter would cost me to make in the USA.... more than Joe sells his for. Is Joe at fault...NO am I mad at that NO I AM NOT.
This is the thing I am a carpet cleaner always have been, I like to think I am one of the better ones in my town, I treat my PM work the same as I do a Million Dollar home. I have only lost one account due to owner change and them not wanting to pay my price.
PM work is the hardest to retain everyday I have been told from them more than 15 biz people come a day to hand them cards it is some of the most targeted work and the hardest to hang on to. I am not going to lower my standards to get the work.
Same went with my product I am not going to lower my quality to sell my filter (BEN) it will bite me in the arse and it did so we stopped doing it. I don't care if I don't sell any if it means lowering my standard.
I gave my 110% when I did all the work, and Tim is the only guy I want doing it because his standards are higher than mine. I am not about price, we still are hundreds under other filters out there and we are better in every way. I am not talking about Joe's filter. I am talking about the ones that are 500+
This is the thing guys that complain about price will complain if it 100,200,300,500. We get it everyday in carpet cleaning OH your price is toooo high.
There is a different market for every product I can not help the fact I am the MIDDLE man now. Joe is also the MIDDLE man on every product he makes, it is just that his man eats rice and works for very little there is nothing we can do about it that is just the way the world is.
I am proud that my filter is made by a young employee of Tim's he just had his first child and my filter allowed Tim to hire him full time he is young but he has great talent and a steady hand. It makes me happy that something I am doing is helping another do good here in the US.
Joe does his thing I do my thing no big deal.



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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by milspec6 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:28 pm

SCCC wrote:
milspec6 wrote:I have one tool of Tony's...he told me it was Joe's.  Again, that was a couple of years ago and we all change in time.

The man can weld and he clearly knows how to produce product...both valuable skills.  I don't want to discourage him, instead, I want to see him produce HIS designs and then he will really have a great enterprise.

If he takes the honest road on this, he can get some great feedback which can propel him towards his own innovations and wouldn't that be great?  The offer of a loaner is a good sign, but will he take the next step?
This is my point he wants to loan, if the tool comes back hey Tony this needs to be done "I can do that I will go back and make adjustments to it...I am back for the loaner with my improvements like you guys suggested"
Hey the tool is great take it to market sell it for what you want look forward to your next loaner.
Tony has said I need to get it in hands to test first I should have done that I should have field tested first.
This is a guy WHO sounds like he is TRYING to do the right thing but if you guys don't give him a chance then calling him a copy cat and other things is really not fair because he didn't get a chance to do it.
Joe and him have issues Joe and I have issues.
Joe does NOT HAND make the tools he get it done and that is good not knocking him in any way.
The difference is Joe is in a way i the middle man.
I think Tony is the man and because of that if he chooses he could sell for less than Joe that is up to Tony.
So say Tony listens makes the improvements and then sells the wands for 399.00 That is not greedy at all
He makes his cut.
Joe does same wand (just say) but he has to use someone to make it he comes to market at 599.00
and Joe gets his cut.
They both are really getting the same cut.

My gut sunk hit the floor when I was told how much my filter would cost me to make in the USA.... more than Joe sells his for. Is Joe at fault...NO am I mad at that NO I AM NOT.
This is the thing I am a carpet cleaner always have been, I like to think I am one of the better ones in my town, I treat my PM work the same as I do a Million Dollar home. I have only lost one account due to owner change and them not wanting to pay my price.
PM work is the hardest to retain everyday I have been told from them more than 15 biz people come a day to hand them cards it is some of the most targeted work and the hardest to hang on to. I am not going to lower my standards to get the work.
Same went with my product I am not going to lower my quality to sell my filter (BEN) it will bite me in the arse and it did so we stopped doing it. I don't care if I don't sell any if it means lowering my standard.
I gave my 110% when I did all the work, and Tim is the only guy I want doing it because his standards are higher than mine. I am not about price, we still are hundreds under other filters out there and we are better in every way. I am not talking about Joe's filter. I am talking about the ones that are 500+
This is the thing guys that complain about price will complain if it 100,200,300,500. We get it everyday in carpet cleaning OH your price is toooo high.
There is a different market for every product I can not help the fact I am the MIDDLE man now. Joe is also the MIDDLE man on every product he makes, it is just that his man eats rice and works for very little there is nothing we can do about it that is just the way the world is.
I am proud that my filter is made by a young employee of Tim's he just had his first child and my filter allowed Tim to hire him full time he is young but he has great talent and a steady hand. It makes me happy that something I am doing is helping another do good here in the US.
Joe does his thing I do my thing no big deal.




I don't disagree at all with you, he is saying the right things....if the members agree to offer him the chance, he will get a fair shake. I just hope that he would come to the loaner with something unique, something of his own designs rather than comparing it's performance against the original that he copied.
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by caltoolsupply on Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:13 pm

Copied ? I am the one who come up the Titanium with stainless steel head . The head which I chose is Cal metal head (CMP) . Joe name it VT (vietnam Tony) .
Anyhow, I no longer want to be a distributor here.

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by Davey Cracker on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:14 am

The Midget wands are sure cute!! laughing

Cya!

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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by SCCC on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:22 am

" The CARPET GUY " it would make some sense Laughing
360 registered members and 25 votes is the winning number ????
Now in know how Obama got in Rolling Eyes
It really is up to the guys and if that is the way it is I go either way if he is here then cool if he is not then cool
But I don't think it is right. I don't think it right to Ban folks, Joe is still burning cause he can't go on MB and TMF to tell his side
Really a bummer things couldn't work out really for everyone just Joe
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

Post by SCCC on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:33 am

Joe wrote:
PS Brevik sent me an old PC and I'm gonna do my best to copy it.
My Goal is to have a prototype by yearend, Same for my first Turbo Tool Original Look-a-like.
save your pennies boys.

Joe wrote:
Thanks to those of you who stepped up to the plate and said NO to copy-cat manufacturing.

BYE Tony.
I guess I read something different, I just don't really see that much difference looking at both Guys as far as wands go, geez we have been copy catting wands since they came out
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Re: Should Caltools be allowed to be a distributor here?

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