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TM Plumbing

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Post by milspec6 Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:08 am

I am about to finish my project and started to second guess the machine plumbing (I know, a little late for that).

I have custom lengths of psi hose connecting my heater to the pump and control panel manifold using 1/4 Goodyear hose along with pass-through QC and SS swivels.

I was able to use the same lengths for each strand to make it easy to carry spares for field repairs and the QC ends should make it a very fast replacement.

Then I started to wonder if I should have used 3/8 inch pressure hose instead? The flow might be better with less stress on the pump, but it will still have a 1/4 inch choke point getting to the hose in places (LG heater for example) so I don't know if it really matters.

I have set aside some time this weekend to make this correction if needed....is it needed?
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Post by ACE Services Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:09 am

If you stay with the 1/4 in. then if you need to you can bypass the heater with the Q connect. If you use the 3/ 8 then you need to use the larger Q connects the 4ht has larger tubing in the coils, just remember to go from the pump to heater. Then heater to the outlet.
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Post by milspec6 Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:05 am

That is an excellent point about the bypass ability if I stay with the 1/4...didn't think about that one.

Would there be any benefit to running 3/8 inch over the 1/4?

The only reason I went with the 1/4 really was just to eliminate any special hoses for field simplicity. If I lost a line, I could cut up some hose off the reel and use field crimps to make a replacement.
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Post by ACE Services Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:58 am

Once the coils are full there're full psi is the same.
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Post by milspec6 Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:44 am

Thanks again ACE! cheers
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Post by milspec6 Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:06 pm

Now that I just finished up gather parts for this plumbing, I am trying to understand if I am doing this right.

I have a collection of ss swivels, flow-through qc's, and my custom length psi lines ready which I had swagged by my local distributor. The problem is that while I was there, we were talking about a used El Diablo that may be coming up for sale soon and I started to look it over.

On the El, all the connection hoses were 1/2 inch like on most machines that I see from the big name builders. On my TNT, it only had 1/4 inch hose for that duty, which is why I went down that road as well.

What don't understand is why the 1/2 inch, or 3/8 inch hose? What benefits would it provide over the 1/4 inch?

Every hose ends up being ultimately choked down to the 1/4 hose on our reels and live swivels, so even though the hose is carrying more volume, it isn't coming out that fitting at that volume.

My machine uses a 1/4 inch tee at the control panel, so any hose that I use will end up getting choked to that size opening regardless of the original hose that fed it. So, what would be the gain with a larger hose?

I can go with a 3/8 hose and use field crimps to create my custom lengths, but I would still be connecting the other end to the 1/4 inch thread.....good idea or not?

There must be a reason for the larger hoses, but what?

Those with a tnt, is this normal or has the previous owner changed the hose size on me?
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Post by ACE Services Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:14 pm

Most all the units I've worked on have 1/2 or 3/4 in. water line into the pump weather from a water Bx or direct feed. Then 1/2 out of the pump for the volume to keep up with the demand for water at the wand. Now your hx's or LJ heater have at least 1/2 tubing in them. Think about it they are twice the size of the outlet which gives you a reservoir of hot water so you can have a constant flow of hot water then there's the psi that keeps the water pressed against the walls of the tubing to exchange the heat to the water.
Thats my best guess. Now I'm going to really mess with your head take a closer look at the crimps on your hose how do you put a 1/4 tube in a 1/4 hose. You can't so you take the side wall of the crimps and the best you can hope for is 3/16. Found this out when using air impacts 1/2 in needs full 1/4 air flow so you have to use 3/8 hose with 3/8 Q connects. Hope this helps.
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Post by milspec6 Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:00 pm

So, here I am:

Running 3/4 inch hose for fresh water to the water box.
Outlet on pump is currently a 1/4 inch swivel as are the fittings on the LG heater and the tee at the control panel (the way it came)

My options seem to be:

1. Run the 1/4 inch raptor hose for all connections like it had.
2. Change the swivels and tee to allow 3/8 or 1/2 inch hose.

Will the 1/4 inch starve the system, lose the heat, or cause damage?
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Post by ACE Services Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:25 pm

You should 1/2 to 3/4 from water Bx to the pump. The press reg. Bypass line the line that goes back to the water Bx should be at least 1/2 the high press from the pressure regulator to the heater can be 1/4. I assume you have a 3cp cat pump which moves 3gph all the time weather you trigger the wand or not that's why the reg return line should be 1/2 or better so you don't have back pressure just free flow back to the water Bx
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Post by milspec6 Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:35 pm

Okay, I should have explained that the hose from the pump to the regulator is 1/2 or maybe 3/4 inch with all the connections after the psi regulator being 1/4.

So, it sounds like I might be okay going with the 1/4 inch raptor hose from the regulator to the heater and heater to the control panel.

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Post by Davey Cracker Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:23 pm

I wouldn't worry about it, and just run the 1/4" hose.

The only 3/8" hose on my TM runs from the pump to the BPR....I think it's the bypass hose but not sure?
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Post by milspec6 Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:39 pm

Thanks gang....going with the 1/4 for now.
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