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Is greed necessary for success?

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Post by milspec6 Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:03 pm

I always find myself asking this question...do you need a sense of greed to build a successful business?

A lot of cleaners these days have a second income (spouse that works, retirement, day job, etc.) so they don't have to hustle as hard to find work and bring in the income to eat. These cleaners also stay small as a result (myself included).

Does the degree of risk equal the success potential?

Ben Franklin would shut down his successful printing business for 6 months every few years just to give himself time to invent and be creative without the daily stresses of running a business....kind of the first beach bum really.

What Ben discovered was that taking time off without an income made him more motivated to go back to work and work hard. His success came from greed and the reminders of life without an income. Without those breaks, he felt that his business grew stagnant.

What do you think....does level of risk correlate to the potential of success?
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Post by Mo Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:40 pm

Nothing like the hunger and homelessness tobout a fire under your ass. I think sometimes we get a little too comfortable when you have an established business you tend tonrest on your laurels.

But in the other side of the coin I have already worked my ass off in banking and transportation and I want to have some fun and enjoy my family before I kick the bucket
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Post by Matt; My carpet cleaner Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:51 pm

I do the same thing as Ben.
Its called Dec, Jan, Feb.
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Post by ACpower1 Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:00 pm

I dont consider success and greed the same thing. Greed is more like you won the lottery and kept every penny to yourself and didnt even help your own family in need.

Striving for success I think is important and the risks involved in going your own route are well worth it.
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Post by milspec6 Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:31 pm

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:I do the same thing as Ben.
Its called Dec, Jan, Feb.

Feel the same way....always raring to go come April.
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Post by milspec6 Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:43 pm

ACpower1 wrote:I dont consider success and greed the same thing.        Greed is more like you won the lottery and kept every penny to yourself and didnt even help your own family in need.      

Striving for success I think is important and the risks involved in going your own route are well worth it.  

I agree, the word choice wasn't really correct, but I was referring to the drive to make money. My Brother is very wealthy and it is largely because he has greed. He places a high value on money, so all of his energy is on making more and his business prospers accordingly.

Donald Trump is driven by money as well and is why he reached such success. Without it, he would probably have ended up as a Casino desk clerk instead of what he has become. The question is, could people like Trump have achieved great business success without the strong drive for wealth?

So many people start up cleaning businesses to only buy themselves a job since they were never driven to chase every buck. My Father was that way and it was a good job, but it never grew into a thriving business. Once his health failed, the business failed.

I am rambling here, but I guess I am just wondering what my potential really is since I have never had that greed desire. I am constantly turning down jobs that I felt didn't benefit the customer or discounted parts of the job that I could have gained from like a short hallway for example. I just want the customer to be thrilled with the results and I want to drive home feeling like I helped.

I'm not sure that will ever work in today's environment.....just analyzing things a bit.
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Post by Freemind1 Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:41 am

IMO, "greed" drives me, yes.
I think their is a difference though, in the O/O mentality, and that of one building a business with other people doing the work.

The O/O is happy to make more (keep the pie he makes instead of getting a slice).
And a guy like Trump, wants everyone to make him a pie, and he gets a LARGE hunk of the pie everyone else makes him.

I don't think either is wrong, but very healthy.

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Post by dp1 Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:04 am

milspec6 wrote:The question is, could people like Trump have achieved great business success without the strong drive for wealth?  

The answer is absolute 100% yes he could, but he doesn't because well he's Donald Trump.
I was very ambitious and ignored economic law of which anyone or anything that grows too fast will fumble and that's exactly what happened, I learned from experience that greed is never good in business or anything, you can have a healthy dose of ambition which I think is necessary for success.
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Post by milspec6 Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:41 pm

Bingo...that was the word I was looking for instead of greed..."ambition".

I guess I am just getting some cold feet as the weeks get closer to the big change this April.
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Post by milspec6 Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:43 pm

Sounds like a Trump campaign speech doesn't it?

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Post by SCCC Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:28 am

I have had this talk with my wife about our kids and how they will make it in this world.
I honestly believe it has a lot to do with each person and there drive and morals to some degree.
I have always WORKED HARD never have been afraid of putting in the extra effort to turn out a great final product, this goes back to my other jobs my whole life. I was always liked at my jobs, NOT from my fellow workers but the owners of the companies, they were always happy with my performance and work.
This is mainly due to what I was taught, I was always taught to work hard....but that is really only part of it.
I have always said to my kids, I can teach you how to do the job right or show you how to be a great employee....I have never been a millionaire so I just don't know the formula to be one, there is things that are taught or learned to set things in motion to become this level.
This is why so many that become instanly rich a lot of times end up back in the same situation years later.
Or why welth stays in a family ( unless drugs or lifestyle choices) are made that don't follow how it was made.
I worked for a man a contractor that had come from nothing to being a millionaire, he said looking back it actually was pretty easy to get the first million looking back....what has been hard is staying there and moving forward to more, so many things are more tempting and I can easily get them, but so many things can ruin you also. This world is designed to keep people down and the temptations just get bigger the more money you have.
He also said NONE of his sons would get any of his money when he passes if they are not right in life, as it would only harm them more if they were not on the right path.
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Post by SCCC Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:36 am

The get rich books and shows, most probably work, and there are people that do become rich following these rules, but they just click with them, they listen and follow them....but most just don't have that makeup, or that certain drive needed to not be side tracked on there way to there in goal.
Some of us look at these things and say oh come on really this is crazy I can't do that.
I do also believe yes Greed has a little to do with it, I don't know if GREED is the proper term but there is a different drive in some of these people, I would have to say that would be more realistic if they hurt or took advantage of lesser folks to get there to be really called greed.
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Post by milspec6 Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:32 am

Like you Tom, I grew up watching my Father work 3 jobs so that was all he knew and how I was taught...work hard and you will get ahead.

My Dad did it that way for his entire life and although he was able to raise a family and send 4 kids through college, his health eventually failed and now he is unable to enjoy life at all. He was able to keep up with the needs when healthy, but it all collapsed in the end.

I have always worked hard. I have been every business's favorite employee as they could count on me to work hard and when they needed. I think I have called off sick less than 6 times my entire life and rarely take vacations. I keep up with needs, but don't see my future any brighter than my Father's.

I am the same way with my cleaning, I will work my butt off to deliver great results, but that is often not a very profitable method. I am entering my 9th year in business and it just seems that it should be more profitable.

The equipment is very good, my skills are good, my effort is very good, but something has been missing and I call it Greed for lack of a better word. My brother tells me that I am too nice and need to start being more of a predator with customers, but that isn't my style and why I am a little concerned about what the future holds if I quit my day job.

I figure that I have another 10 good years of being able to work hard before things have to slow down. It is a crossroads for me right now and I guess I am struggling to make the decision.
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Post by dp1 Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:00 pm

I'd have to disagree with your brother, honesty is the key in service industry, the thing you have to do to be more profitable is improving your efficiency OR increasing your rates, improving efficiency is not as hard as you think, a helper is one way, for $ 15 / hour you can make easily double your hourly rate, in my case from $ 100 / hour when I work by myself to $ 200 / hour, that also cuts down on the machine running time which will cut down a whole LOT of expenses. When you can double up like that, you can save an extra $ 50 / hour for your retirement, plus it's a huge tax savings when you deposit those funds and the savings is non taxable ( check with your state, it might be different there ).
My family situation is a little complicated but growing up I just have the ambition to be better than my dad was, no disrespect to him but I want to raise my kids better and want to end up better than him.
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Post by milspec6 Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:40 pm

I have never been able to double my rates with a helper, but I see your point.

Around here, the service industry and honesty are not seen together very often. I remember when I needed to replace my roof after a bad hail storm and I asked the big-name contractor in town for an estimate.

He rudely told me that he can't give an estimate until he knows what the insurance adjuster is willing to pay. I told him that I wanted to know what it would cost and what the insurance is paying is not the question.

He called me a few names and hung up on me. So, I waited a couple of days and called him again, this time telling him that the insurance adjuster is issuing a check for 25k dollars.

He told me that it would be "about right" and that he could do the replacement for that. This time, I called him a few names and hung up.

The dude owns half of all businesses in the small towns around me, makes an obscene amount of profits, and has no honesty at all.
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Post by dp1 Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:27 pm

Why not Rob ? The labor is double, the time should be cut in half with a lot less things you need to do, I always do things when my tech is pushing the wand, making solutions and detergents, pulling his hoses while prepping the invoice, spotting for him, etc, and now as I'm typing this, he's finishing up about 50 sq ft up on the 3rd floor, after he's done, he's collecting the payment and I'm wrapping up, when he comes down, I'm almost done wrapping up, it's easy ! That's why we can knock 5 - 6 jobs easily in a day Very Happy
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Post by dp1 Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:30 pm

Oh btw the key is that wand shouldn't stop moving, I moved furnitures for him as he's cleaning, he almost never had to stop to help me move furnitures or if customers are trying to talk to him while he's working, I take over the wand from him or vice versa, once the wand stop moving, that's when the productivity drops.
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Post by milspec6 Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:01 pm

I get that on commercial and yes, that wand never stops...that is why I have large waste tanks.

I just never found it that way on residential, but maybe my techs just weren't the right ones. Normally, they end up waiting to be directed instead of showing initiative.

I guess that is what happens with summer help instead of full-time employees.
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Post by Mo Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:28 pm

Rob if your comfortable with the number of months you have in reserves for the business and personal expenses I say go for it! If not that save some more until you can take the plunge with stressing out too.

When I started out I had over 12 months in reserves for all of the business. I recall in my first year it just died in the winter and rather than go into my reserves I stocked shelves graveyard at the super market for 2 months.

You'll be all right dude. Just do it!!
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Post by Mo Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:29 pm

The problem with being greedy is that no amount of money will quench that greed.
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Post by milspec6 Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:54 pm

Mo wrote:Rob if your comfortable with the number of months you have in reserves for the business and personal expenses I say go for it! If not that save some more until you can take the plunge with stressing out too.

When I started out I had over 12 months in reserves for all of the business. I recall in my first year it just died in the winter and rather than go into my reserves I stocked shelves graveyard at the super market for 2 months.

You'll be all right dude. Just do it!!

Thanks Mo, I appreciate the support. I don't have a lot socked away...probably 5-6 months worth if I didn't find any work, which is never going to be the case. As the day approaches, I feel less stressed about potential failure...I have never really failed at anything I have ever attempted in life, so this should not be any different.

It is just a big step and I don't drink enough rum, so I still worry.
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Post by dp1 Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:30 pm

It's really hard to be a hybrid ( that's my term of someone who can dual tasked and just find things to do without being told ), most techs are not hybrid, that's why I usually have them push that wand because I can always find something else to do, most jobs I actually don't have any extra time even though I'm just pulling the hoses and prepping the invoice and inputing the address to the next job, my tech is super efficient with his work, Davey seen him work, he's a beast Very Happy
I agreed with Mo, once you go full time, you'll automatically do more to get more jobs scheduled, it's a human nature to survive, especially you are single, it's a lot cheaper to feed yourself versus feeding a family of 4 or 5 Very Happy
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Post by Mo Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:37 pm

The single life must be nice.  I spend 500. a month for my daughters dance and gymnastics, 125.00 for color and haircut, braces, sons school tuition and insurance I can go on and on.
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Post by milspec6 Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:51 pm

What food....a box of oatmeal cost less than $5 and lasts me all week. Very Happy

Single is expensive as well....we get killed on taxes and hobbies can get you in to trouble very quickly. Not the same, of course, but it can be surprisingly expensive at times.
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Post by ACE Services Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:41 am

Try going to work one day and find out you don't have a job. Come home and tell the wife, yeah that went over well. Been almost 5yrs now has it been tough for sure, but we've worked hard and done without paid more things off than ever before. I've got someone begging me to go to work for him doing the same thing as I'm doing now. We've been talking but I've not sure I want to sure the wife and checking account would feel better but I gotten used to having some freedom. 20 yrs with Uncle Sam plus 15 with civil service then worked 8 with ILS driving 140 miles a day just burning gas. Now I may not have as big of a check but if I drive 140 miles it's a tax credit, cell phones, Internet, and I can helpmy parents and in laws if needed. Things I've got to think about do I really want to get back into.
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