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Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

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Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:12 pm

For the last 5 years, I have been running dual hoses from my waste tank to my inline filter. One port is a 2" and one is a 2.5" and although I have run the cfm tests which shows that it does help, I am really starting to doubt that.

When I finish cleaning and shut down, I find that there is always still water in my 2.5 inch lead hose, but nothing in the 2 inch. Now, it is important to note that I lift the filter upright and shake it for a few minutes at full vac to empty it all out, yet there is always water left in only the 2.5 inch hose.

I am beginning to believe that the cfm test is showing more air flow, but it is not enough to lift the water. The vapor is being pulled at a higher rate, but the liquid is not moving as well as in the 2 inch hose. If this is true, then we are all wasting our time with these 2.5 inch hose connections and would be better off going back a step to the dual 2 inch hoses to a tee.

Actually, we might be better served with just a single 2 inch line instead of the dual hoses if the lift is being affected on the other hose in that set-up as well. The exception would be on flood work where the added hose can provide more breathability as one hose fills with water. I don't think we move near as much water extracting carpet than you do on a flood so it might not be of any value.

Anyone else seeing this with dual hoses off the waste tank? Instead of a cfm meter, we should be measuring water volume being collected in the waste tank. That is our goal after all, isn't it?
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by dp1 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:45 pm

My everest 408 has 2 - 2" hoses coming out of waste tank and it always leaves water in filter ( without lifting the filter upright ) but my everest 650 does not leave water in the filter ( again this is without lifting the filter upright after we're done with cleaning ) and the everest 650 has 3" - 4" hoses coming out of the waste tank to the pre-filter box and then from the pre filter box going to inline filter, while the 408 has the metal filter inside the waste tank.
That being said I think with bigger hose you will get more lift but less cfm, I can almost bet you that if you cover that filter with a cap after you're done cleaning, you wouldn't have water in the filter.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACpower1 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:51 pm

I always used 1 2.5 inch for the machine to filter then 50ft of 2.5 before it reduces to 2in.  

This year I switched since the TNT has a 2in and a 2.5 in port so I ran 2 short hoses to the inline filter.  

I might go back to just 1 2.5inch,         water when being moved by air flow will always take the easiest route and I am not sure how much water during a cleaning is even moving through the 2inch from machine to filter.  


An easy way to test would be to take the clear 2inch tube from my RV360 and put it inline between the machine and filter to see how much water is even coming that route while someone is wanding
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:57 pm

I am contemplating the same thing with my TNT right now...single 2.5 and capping off the 2" port. A single 50 ft span of 2.5 will get me from the curb to the front door of any house in my area and I think that might be the way to go.

Dp, my filter never has water in it, just the hose back to the tank and only the 2.5 hose. I think I could move more actual water using a single line than with two hoses....at least hoses of different diameters.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by dp1 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:07 pm

Sorry Rob, I didn't read your OP correctly, same scenario with my everest 408, my short hose to the inline filter always has water vs my 650 hoses doesn't, in my case I know it's from the hose sizes coming out of the waste tank, I was thinking about drilling 3" - 4" holes out of my waste tank and set it up the same way with my 650 but I would need to buy a pre filter box and prochem wants $ 500 for that piece of metal ( not even include the metal filter inside that pre filter box ).
Try capping that inline filter and I can almost guarantee you the hoses will be dry ( well they won't have any water in them ).
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:09 pm

Pre-filter boxes are brutal. I remember wanting to add the butler one to my set-up until I heard the price....crazy expensive for what it is.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACE Services on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:47 pm

Funny you guys should be taking about the filter Bx deal. What do you think about a inline / filter Bx. It could be mounted or used as a stand up inline filter that won't drip like some of the others.
I am looking at at round or square body, SS or aluminum.
Using SS basket that is available at most suppliers maybe even the same screen mesh sock that you are already using.
What are your thoughts.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:02 pm

I think if it included a bypass hose giving one the option of sending it to an APO, it would be a nice addition.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACE Services on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:23 pm

Ac12h at interlink supply is that item. I'm thinking something better than the RC 99 but maybe cost a little more but way less than 500. Got to build it first.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:07 pm

Now that you announced it, the clock is ticking and there is probably someone else banging away in his/her shop trying to get there first.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACE Services on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:15 am

Well don't tell J.B. Lol.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by Mo on Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:53 am

@ACE Services wrote:Funny you guys should be taking about the filter Bx deal. What do you think about a inline / filter Bx. It could be mounted or used as a stand up inline filter that won't drip like some of the others.
I am looking at at round or square body, SS or aluminum.
Using SS basket that is available at most suppliers maybe even the same screen mesh sock that you are already using.
What are your thoughts.

Won't a square in line filter reduce CFM?
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:49 am

Many say that a square filter will slow the flow, but I have never tested it. Seems like it would, but many of the filter boxes that I see from Butler, PC, etc. have been box-shape. I would think that they test those designs before pushing them out there.

A toilet tank seems to flow fine and it is a rectangle....as long as the piping was large enough (3 inches) it may not really matter.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:52 am

Even better would be a rippled shape like irrigation tubes. They actually flow better than a smooth pipe and are often found that way on the blower vac inlet tube right?

I would use a 3-4 inch rippled tube like found on blowers.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACE Services on Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:47 pm

First the filter it self is round. Just the Bx is square. Similar to a white magic filter Bx that had 3 2 inch ports on it.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:18 pm

You should know by now ACE that cleaners are often not the sharpest sailors in the boat (see, that didn't even make sense), so we need to see a picture to understand things.

IF you think it is a winner, I would bet money on you making it a success...you are that kind of guy. Whip up a prototype and then we will see if our collective minds can be of any help in fine tuning it.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACE Services on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:49 pm

Did you you look at the AC12H at interlink supply.
Not that I wouldn't use a round tube but putting a lid on a square tube is easier.
Besides who said you can't put a round screen in a square hole. Lol
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:39 pm

I almost bought one last year if you remember. I would definitely use one except the AC12H is over-prices for basically a sump pump in a box IMHO.

If there was a better option, I would be interested.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by Matt; My carpet cleaner on Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:00 pm

Back to the original question.
I ditched my 2.5" hose today. I see/hear that I'm getting more lift. The wand locks down more.
Been tired of whipping that big thing around.

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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:22 pm

I'm dropping the dual hose crap for the same reason. Just going to run a single 2.5 inch to the filter and 2 inch from there. How much suction do you need on a house at less than 150 hose run anyway?

Just going to keep things simple from now on.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by steamprony on Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:27 am

Go with 2-2" for both the port. Test the newly added 2" hose, see whether there is any water left after shutdown. Also run the CFM test and see what it has to say.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by milspec6 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:16 am

The CFM tests do show an increase...did that test a couple of years back, but I don't think it tells the whole story. There is a greater volume of air being moved, but not necessarily more water getting lifted.

In fact, it seems like there may be less water being moved through the hoses with the 2x2 or even the 2.5+2 that I was running.

If reducing the added hassle of the dual hoses is possible without any loss in water recovery, I am all for it. Sometimes we get wrapped up in modifications and industry trends so much that we complicate things when they don't need to be.

I am going try it out for awhile and see what I see.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by dp1 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:46 pm

I'm far from being an expert on this but think of it this way, why does the holes glide dries the carpets better than slotted or hybrid ? Because the cfm is restricted and it provides more lift, just like when you restrict water flow on garden hose, it will provide more pressure.
Like Eddy always said, keep it simple ! Very Happy
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by ACE Services on Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:35 pm

@dp1 wrote:I'm far from being an expert on this but think of it this way, why does the holes glide dries the carpets better than slotted or hybrid ? Because the cfm is restricted and it provides more lift, just like when you restrict water flow on garden hose, it will provide more pressure.
Like Eddy always said, keep it simple ! Very Happy
Always said dang when did I die. Lol
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

Post by SCCC on Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:18 pm

We have a wand that is a continuous air leak, any hose cuff, waste tank gasket leak, any air leak in the system, that is not on the carpet fibers is going to take away from your lift at the wand.
Now add 4 2 Door, or 2.5 hose, the volume inside these hoses is larger, so if you have leaks, the #4 or 45 blower is going to have a hard time keeping the vacuum up.
It takes MORE time to put a 100 gallon tank under vac than a 50 gallon.
I call it lag time, we use to run 42door, but when my son was working with me I noticed that because he would lift wand and break the seal, and his wand strokes were faster than mine ( YOUTH ) the carpet was overwet, so we went back to one 50' of 2.5 the LIFT LAG was way less.
The LIFT LAG is even less on 2"....But you may also notice your Vac Relief working more, the drag in the 2" hose may be just enough that is causes that thing to vent, and when your VR vents you are losing energy back at the blower, not at the wand slot.
So you need to find the right balance so that your machine is running at it optimum.
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Re: Does running 2.5 inch hose really help?

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