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Suppliers Posting

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dp1
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Post by milspec6 Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:12 pm

Just like in business, the money part always clouds the water and you can lose your clear purpose pretty quickly. I came here due to the mission statement "Where Cleaners connect, learn, and prosper" and that is why I stayed.

As a solo operator, minus some part-time employees, I don't have other cleaners near by to talk shop with and compare experiences in order to improve my business. On a board like this one, I get to interract, compare notes, and really learn something beneficial on a daily basis....for which I thank all of you for greatly.

Just like with any business, the money side has to addressed or things will cease to exist. I don't like dealing with the money-side in my business let alone on this board, so I don't have the answers to this supplier issue. What I can say is that I don't receive any funds or gifts from anyone, I am just trying to be honest and helpful when I can in hopes that someone finds a use for my rambling posts...not sure how people could, but I hope some have.

I will just have to see what is decided on this issue and hope that nobody decides that this experiement isn't worth the effort, because I think it is the best thing out there. Honest cleaners helping each other prosper.

The trick seems to be finding a solution that isn't so rigid that it tries to fit all suppliers into one basket. Terry is a good example, he is an honest giver and belongs here with the rest of us misfits and would be difficult to classify him like Mytee or any other supplier that comes to the board to move merchandise. They are different creatures and might require differnt standards IMHO.

Focus on the mission statement gang, we don't want to spit on what we have achieved so far. Neutral 
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Post by Ryan S Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:43 pm

Here is the thing with Terry.

Great post Rob, you bring to level side to us three.

The only post that I deleted of Terry's is the one with ties to Nordic. His helpful real cleaner have stayed, his other political post are here.

I pressed the pause button, that's it.

I know it's a fogged line.

Maybe we tax each member an annual member fee? That will close the group down fast.

Just like allowing deepgreen to promote here FREE and then ask wanders or bonnet pro or cal tools or Judson to pay sponsorship.

Think about it, these suppliers want our input, they want their supply in our trucks. They need our feed back.

More later I got to take my wife on a dinner business meeting.

Keep up the comments and contribution. Hey suppliers what few we have, how does this affect your thoughts? Even if you don't sponsor but lurk, join to answer this question.

C Ya
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Post by carpetdaddy Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:46 pm

My two cents (after paying my employees that's about all I have left)... If a vendor is here to strictly sell product, even if he masks the fact by making a couple of posts, then he should be a paid sponsor and pay a set [advertising] fee. If a vendor is a regular contributing member - helping out the other members then he should be willing to sponsor small events/contests - a golf shirt, hat, free product etc. Also, I would be willing to kick in a small amount (stress on SMALL) to help with the hosting if needed.
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Post by milspec6 Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:37 pm

I think we are on the right track, you guys make good points about how to work this out. Hopefully, the suppliers chime in to give their opinions as well in a fair and honest manner.
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Post by dp1 Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:38 pm

Ok ok, wow, why is this turn to drama all over again, the way I see it is Mo is the owner and he has the right to do whatever he wish to the forum, I swear if when I get back from vacation this forum is gone, I will hunt each and every single one of you and  slaping and  kick ass every single one of you ! laughing 
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Post by Davey Cracker Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:09 pm

Ryan S wrote:
......................................Next step is helping you find a way into our market with better exposure. I think that the help we have given you is worth the consideration of a monthly sponsor.

I couldn't agree more, why should one advertiser have to pay for a banner/ad to advertize (not a "sponsor") here, and the next one not??......of course this isn't meant to be an attack or anything personal against the  deepgreen guy, it just happens to be a perfect example. I don't believe hes a cleaner?, and doesn't seem to be contributing to this forum is any way other than promoting the product, so I think it's time to do what the rest of the advertisers have to do, pay to advo!  wink 

And about that Viking guy, what is he selling anyway, BEER?!? ......but WTH, it's a different brand in every video!! laughing
But yea, same deal........even though he post very little to no info on what's being shown or posted, does that indicate not being very serious about actually selling something?....maybe again, just BEER?!?  It's obviously more than just the typical member posting a used piece of equipment in the classified section.......How bout you tell us, Oden, just showing off what you've made for your own personal use, and not really for sale, or is it?  coctail reading
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Post by Andy Mc Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:42 am

The deep green guy came on here in response to curiosity about his product, answered questions and what not.. ended up hooking some guys up, we got reviews and all is good. Isn't that nice?

Now he better pay up! Hey deep green man, just pay up and Ryan will continue to shill for ya, it's a good deal all the way around.

Then let it be known that not only is the board for sale , but we have shills for hire, what a great deal! you get advertising spots and one or more professional shills for the low price of $19.99, (per week) what that's not all,, we will also crush any mention of your competition, we will ban any members who talk badly of your product,

"We work for you" takes on a whole other meaning.


(Sorry about the rant, and sarcasm,)
But , Their has to be some common sense balance here guys, one size fits all approach is just not fair, IMO.

A small one product guy wont be able to compete with larger companies as far as advertising bucks. What I fear will end up happing, some large company will end up buying the board, look at the mytee board (oh sorry I meant Bob's board)

and all the small guys who are truly innovators will get lost, and we will lose the benefit of their innovations.

I ask you , who lost out more,

1)The potential newbie member, in dire need of start up equipment or the guy looking for an in expensive back up, or second truck.
OR...

2)Terry not being able to show a USED excellent working TM for sale , priced to move fast at less then a cost of a high end porty, at a price that doesn't even cover what he has invested in the machine.


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Post by Ryan S Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:25 am

Hey Mo. How much does it cost to keep the board running. Your time included. It's not like all this content and information just manages it's self.
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Post by Andy Mc Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:46 am

How much advertising dollars can you command when their is no one here to advertise to? the board membership grows as VAULE that the board offers grows.

the guys that offer value are responsible for keeping members engaged here, and for bringing in members.

Now you have a large audience worth advertising to.

Their needs to be a balance between advertising , and value, take one or the other too far and this board will die, from lack of membership OR lack of funds.

Their is no value in payed shilling, no value in censorship, no value in keeping an awesome deal from our view. (we can only discuss pre spray so much,)

we need guys here that can offer technical support, or make informative videos, or just make funny ones that feature the beer of the week. That makes for an interesting forum that keeps guys here.

And in turn that large (loyal) audience commands a high advertising dollar.

Can't you see that this is the mistake that Bob made? his board is dyeing. No reason for any one to go their other then to be "board" to death.

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Post by Ryan S Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:01 am

I think your missing it Andy. The Lounge is not looking to make money. No one is really.

Your perspective is from experience of the other boards. We don't operate that way.

As far as the engaging information and topics. This board has more different topics discussed than any of the others. When when was the last time you started one?

No one is stopping Terry from posting, he just did a great one this am. No one is holding anyone for ransom, of shills. I simply stated, maybe not the best way, but that "we" the real cleaners can and will and already have found different uses for the DeepGreen.

Don't you think that "we" the real cleaner should be rewarded for that through supporting the lounge in monthly fee.

I don't know what the monthly cost is. But I do know what "we" the real cleaner give back in response to the manufacturer is of great value. What do you think our input and field information we bring back here to the lounge is worth? It a good question for member and manufacture to discuss.

Maybe Joe from wanders can tell us how his monthly support has provided valuable or invaluable return from us the real cleaner in our field research.

This model sure is much more affordable and more valuable to the real cleaner that some other outside company doing bogus research on stuff we the real cleaner won't even encounter in the field.

Thanks for your opinions Andy, it is helping to evolve this topic.
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Post by Ryan S Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:31 am

In my opinion it's not advertising. I don't need advertising to find products that work. I come here to the lounge and engage with real cleaners and from there go find the product.

That's why manufacturer support is important. It's a continuing giving ecosystem that must be engaged. By not just the manufacturer but the cleaners also. With out both, we here at the touché will be like the others as you say Andy ruled by a all controlling one sided supplier or the newest must have BS that ends up as I like to say "Crap" in my van taking up space. Here is the video.
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Post by Andy Mc Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:56 pm

Thanks for the response Ryan, maybe I am missing something,

But I think your missing ,,

that I want the board to make money, I want Mo to make money, ( I've considered him a friend for many year's) but the way to do it is to have a large audience .

when you say you will post further helpful information on a product, on the condition the supplier pay for it,

Or delete informative videos because it shows a logo of a company that is not an advertiser,,,,

then it diminishes the value of the board, In turn membership will decrease, which leads to no audience for any one to advertise too.

S all im saying, In a nut shell ,

And ,,,, I will shut up now, I wish you a wonderful weekend and a Blessed Easter.

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Post by Mo Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Hey don’t worry about the hosting fees It’s no big deal and I got that.

Hey Andy, remember when we used to hang out at us cleaners.? It was me, you, Bill, Philip, Dustin, Joe , George, Jon, etc.  That place was cool. We learned about the business there. It wasn’t the biggest forum but I enjoyed posting there and hanging out.  But eventually people went out of business, lost interest, found another forum where they felt more comfortable etc.   It eventually dwindled to no members posting and it became inactive. That’s life and that stuff happens.

But I’ll be dammed if the reason The Cleaners Lounge dies is because we can’t find a way to make distributors happy.  Fuk that.  
 

You know originally I thought, Let’s bring in some advertisers. I’ll create subforum and they can sell their stuff there.  The Cleaners Lounge could use those funds to sponsor our own independent loaner programs, raffles, giveaways, samples etc.


But when you introduce money into the equation it complicates things and creates distrust. Members think that moderators and admins are profiting or shilling.


The Sponsors think they can dictate how the board is to be run and how moderators are to comport themselves. Sponsors don't like it when other distributors come in the forum and sell their stuff and don't give back to the forum like they're doing etc etc.


 I think it might be best if we don't take money from distributors. It doesn’t mean that It can’t change in the future but for now I think it’s best if we go that route.


I want distributors to feel welcome here because the more input we have the better, They can have a distributor subforum and post their ads there as gratitude for there participation to the lounge. If all they do is post ads and not contribute we can deal with that on a case by case basis.


But I’ll let you guys decide what you want to do, majority rules here at The Cleaners Lounge.
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Post by Larry Henson Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:52 pm

Personally.... I think you are doing a great job running the forum Mo. Being you are a full time cleaner and devote your spare time for us hang out and express our views and have to put up with all of the B.S. ....kudos to you. I don't like drama but do love constructive banter or opinions.
Heard a ESPN radio announcer once say that if everything was positive he wouldn't have a job.....even he concluded that different opinions made his rating higher.
You all keep administrating and moderating and I will keep posting.
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Post by Ryan S Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:16 pm

I still think the smart way, ethical way, overall best way to grow a board is with this concept of bringing in distributors on the basis of "paying" the members something.


Sure, board owners can make money, and Mo's no exception, so, he gets paid right off the top. No problem.

But I think if we look over the horizon we will see faster growth, broader reach and more RC involvement if we use some form of distributor support.



Think about though, do "we" want to see this board go the way of the others or do "we" want to keep pushin for a better way, more geared toward rewarding the real heart & soul. the Contributors?
Of course let's reward the Contributors. No brainer.

Take a look at it this way:

1) no more advertising ribbons, banners, clips, what ever. Don't follow the crowd. Isn't that what we do when running our business's. Don't follow what everybody else is doing.

Instead, give them a place like the distributors forum, a little mini-site within a bigger board that can be used to showcase, explain, offer up specials etc.


2) that's where the monthly support comes in.. directly to Mo as owner. He can use it/distribute it however he sees fit.
Don't forget foundation though, the Contributors??? Where's their reward? After all, without them, The Lounge would just be another cleaning forum.
So, Let's think of the best way to reward the Contributors. OK?

3) we've already done it Lots of ways, post counts, etc. Real distributors paying real dollars directly to the members, specifically the Contributing members.
And not just some freeloaders lookin for handouts. NO! These people are all over the other boards. Real distributors hate this kind of person btw.

What we need is a reward to keep the guys who give and keep giving. They need to get rewarded for all their giving. Distributors seek these people out to partner with. Most of us have already experienced this, I know I have.

Real Distributors understand this. We simply need to explain our ideas. And that's where all the members, albeit real cleaner or distributor, come into the equation.

How do we approach it?


We create threads, then come and see if anybody responded to posts and there's a the distributor offering us something that can really be used. And providing us a place where we can really communicate back to the distributor.

Think!!!!!

Imagine!!!!

Develop!!!!

We can change the atypical forum innovations, I believe if we do this together. We will watch crazy change in our industry. Cleaners, distributor, innovators, and the like WILL flock to this place, while the others scramble to catch traction.

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Post by Andy Mc Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:36 pm

I think you have the right idea Mo,

Yes I remember the old US cleaners crowd,, tell this day the most enjoyable forum and the best group of support, I ever experienced on a carpet cleaning forum.

Still have several of those guys on my speed dial and still good friends.

one day (5 or 6 years ago) I mentioned on that board, I was struggling with internet marketing, and you called me out of the blue to offer your helpful advise. I never forgot that. It meant a lot to me ,





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Post by Larry Henson Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:36 pm

Your points are well taken Ryan and I understand completely. The ground work should be set into place before hand and an even keel across the board....but not brow beating...just saying handle that part off of the board if you can (I know that's not the case always). I might be in the minority here and swore I wouldn't reply to thread but yet here I am. Not trying to come off as an aggressor just as a bystander looking in and giving my opinion, not that it's worth anything.
Hope everyone has a great Easter weekend and remembers what it is truly about.
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Post by Ryan S Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:46 pm

Thanks Larry,

We all appreciate your view point. Please continue to give perspective.

My objective is not to brow beat or even get aggressive with any contributor member. (It's the internet and text can be misread very easily. I do all the time. I picked the phone up this week cause of it).

Everyone needs to know your perspective is important and needs to be expressed.

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Post by ACpower1 Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:23 pm

I just like that this forum is small, I browse the large ones but dont post...

seems like there is just about 20 regulars on here maybe a few more.

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Post by Goomer Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:03 pm

Excuse my New York mentality, but around here, the concept of "everyone get's a cut" is what keeps things moving. Anyone that benefits monetarily by tapping into someone else's "action", is expected to kick a little something back to the big guy.

It's the right thing to do.

Most any distributor is in the business to make a profit, and rightfully so.
If a distributor decides to participate here in any way, they will undoubtedly benefit is some way whether they push their products hard or not. Their presence alone is enough to keep them in the mind of a potential customer, so there is always a benefit.

Terry may be a unique issue because I think he gets more of a hard on by posting pictures of his wordy adventures and escapades, than trying to turn a profit, but his arrangement here is none of my business.

It's between Mo and him.
And if it's not my business, it's nobody else's either.

I am sure running a board is no picnic, and not without expense.

Mo has every right to put a couple of bucks in his pocket for his efforts if he chooses so.

A large reason I take this stance is because I in no way see how it will have any effect on this board.
I fail to see how it will change any thing.
The particular advertisement that flashes across this board, or who is kicking a little something back to Mo, should have no effect on anything.


If it does, then SHAME ON US,  NOT THE DISTRIBUTORS.

The thing that gives a board it's character is the collective consciousness of it's members.

We are all big boys here and should be able to make our own decisions, and should be capable of weeding out the bullshit.

The problem arises when board owners start to favor distributors, and begin to silence critics of participating distributors, whether right or wrong, in an effort to maintain a revenue stream they have become accustomed to, by not losing a distributor.

This is the slippery slope.

How Mo handles this delicate balancing act, and most importantly, the perception of it, is what will determine how it will effect this board.

So as far as I'm concerned, it make no difference to me what he decides to do as far as policy.

The key will be how he manages both the interest of his members and the distributors at the same time, without alienating or favoring either side, and his ability to carefully, and objectively moderate any issues if they arise.

It's not whether he enacts the policy or not.

How he plays the game is what is most important and I am sure that everyone will be keeping a close eye on him........ Shocked
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Post by carpetdaddy Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:35 pm

I must be a little dense... I didn't even realize you (Terry) were a vendor til now. Feel free to send me one of those golf shirts XL.
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Post by milspec6 Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:33 pm

carpetdaddy wrote:I must be a little dense... I didn't even realize you (Terry) were a vendor til now. Feel free to send me one of those golf shirts XL.

I think this is the crust of the issue. This board has some really good people supporting each other and even developing friendships they didn't have before. Some of those members / friends are also vendors but they are supportive members first and vendor second while other vendors are just vendors.

When trying to decide the fair thing to do with vendor fees, there needs to be an understanding of who is mainly a vendor and who is mainly a member. Members should not have to pay fees in my opinion as they are already a trusted part of the group. It is the vendor-only that I feel needs to pay a fee to be allowed to enter the lounge as they are only here to promote a product.

Maybe we can make a probation period for vendors. Vendors need to support the board for a period of time before they can promote their products. I don't care what the duration would be, but it would eliminate the vampire vendors who don't want to do anything but move product through the board and leave us with supportive vendors that really want to be part of this group's mission (Connect, Learn, Prosper).
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Post by Ryan S Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:10 pm

I hope the cleaners lounge never gets to a point where. Vendor comes here to only promote their products. If a vendor can't contribute, then I hope the boys call their bluff.

If the cleaner members is willing to contribute their experience with a product then a vendor should be willing to contribute their knowledge as much as possible.
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