What would you guys charge for this

I've been cleaning the carpet for this place for over 3 years and now they want a quote for the seats. There are approximately 480 velvet fabric on seat and back only. The seats aren't high enough to worry about grease heads. Thinking about going VLM with a two man crew. What would your quote be?

Wow, looks like a big place, Mo!........and that's a lot of chairs.
My best guess would be $3-4 per chair.

I'm sure Rob can help with this one, being he has experience with theater chairs.

If they are a velvet, you will need to card them, and that will cost you lots of time.

I don't know if 5 bucks a chair would be good, but IF I was doing all that work, I would be pushing a bid of 8-10 bucks each.

I was going to ask the same thing about the description "velvet". Are you dealing with an actual velvet that would need a brass brush?

Whe I clean those theaters, it is about the same number of chairs and a crew should be able to maintain a 2 minute per chair pace with either vlm or hwe...that includes some stretch breaks and bitching about how much cleaning that many chairs suck.

What I found worked best was having (2) 2-man crews. One would spray and the second hits it with the cyclo polisher and aqua brushes. With 2 crews like that, you should be done in less than 8 hours.

The problem here is that you have 4 people working 8 hours for a ticket that will net you $1440 (at 3 per chair) or $2400 (at 5 per chair). That translates to a poor profit margin...after paying for all that labor.

Now if it is just you and a helper, then you will be working for what $90 per hour (3 per chair) or $150 per hour (5 per chair. Would you clean a carpet for with helper for $90 per hour??

The bid of 3-5 is pretty average in this area and it will get you the job, but you will not be happy at $3 and only slightly happier at $5.

I found out from the accountants that the previous cleaner charged $20 per chair...AND GOT IT! Of course, he never got invited for a repeat performance, but at that price, he didn't care.

Unless you want to spend 2 days on this task, go with 2-crews of 2 and charge no less than $5. They know you and like your work, so they will probably not even blink at that price. In fact, sell them on some protector and you should be able to turn a good profit without much extra labor.

As for what to use? I found that citrus boosting was far more effective than any other solvent or peroxides. Unless you really do have a velvet to deal with....then that suggestion is way off base.

Any photo of the chairs to help us out?

While thinking about this some more, you might consider a trial run.

Offer to clean a single chair for free as a test. This would do 2 things: It would demonstrate how they will look; and it will give you a basis as to how long it will take as well as the pita factor.

To re-upholster a velvet chair costs quite a bit, so a cleaning can be a real bargain...even at a high estimate. Those theater chairs cost thousands to replace (each) so even if they paid $10 per chair, extending the chair's usage a few more years would be a bargain.

Test clean one, price reupholstering, and present them with the data.....you might get that $20 per chair

I certainly wouldn't look forward to cleaning that many chairs for $5......but I quoted 3-5 because that's what I figured it would take to get the job. I prob wouldn't be happy doing them unless I was getting closer to $10 ea.

I guess what it really comes down to, is how bad do you want or need that job? If you need it then I'd say stick closer to $5. If you don't really care if you get the job, then of course shoot high, then if you need to you can always come down if needed, and if you get it at least you're not cussing the whole time you're cleaning them.

I usually shoot high, and just get less jobs, but usually make as much as I would if I went cheap and did more jobs...........I like working less.

Davey Cracker wrote:Wow, looks like a big place, Mo!........and that's a lot of chairs.
My best guess would be $3-4 per chair.

I'm sure Rob can help with this one, being he has experience with theater chairs.

That seems about right.

I would shoot for $ 5 because of the amount of work and it's close to Thanksgiving ( holiday busy cleaning ). If they say it can be done around January - february, I would drop it to $ 4 and try to get them to sign an agreement that they will have you do it.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I feel like I have to give her a quote and to try and get this job just so that I can keep the competitors out. I would hate to lose the carpet. Good idea giving them a lower price for Jan and Feb DP.

I understand that fully Mo, I ended up doing the same thing on that Theater....didn't make much, but kept the enemies out.

The only thing is that your competition is only going to bid it cheap to steal it away from you....and lose money on the deal. They will not be cleaning it again after that experience even if they were awarded the job.

Aim a little high and then if they decline it, counter offer according to the competition's bid. Clearly, they would prefer you did the job since they know you and they know what to expect from you.

You don't have to under-bid the competition and don't even have to match it, they want you to have the job so you only have to close in your bid.

Stay with at least $5....your back will be a lot happier.

That's true^, you need to watch your back, and not loose your carpet deal at the same time.

But like Rob also said, you don't need to be the cheapest, because they know you and your work and obviously like you. So for that reason, no need to go low ballin', so shoot for $5+ and take it from there.

You can Dew it Big Guy!!

Going into any negotiation timid is a mistake. We all make that mistake a lot, ever wonder what the customer was willing to pay when they accepted your bid so quick?

I served as a Union contract negotiator years ago against the State of Nebraska. The department that I was with had a pay freeze for 8 years prior to this contract due to budget cuts. At this session, the State had a revenue surplus, so we new we had the upper hand.

We went into the room timid and demanded a 5% pay increase plus a standard of living increase of about another 3%, which was the average in other states.. The State walked out of the room apparently upset and said that we would have to be reasonable.

At the end of the day, we accepted a 3% raise, 2% cost of living increase, and lost a dental plan. We felt lucky and proud of finally getting a pay increase for the labor force, despite the dental loss.

What we didn't know until years later was that when they walked out of the room, it was to keep from laughing. The Governor instructed them to keep the increase below 13% if they could, but could go as high as 17%.

The point being, you can allows come down on your price, but you can't go up. Don't worry so much about the other company, know what price you need to get and don't be afraid to quote it.

Every company has different over-head and there is no sense in trying to make your bid based on "their" business plan. Give your bid based upon "your" business plan. If you really want the job, then you can come down as needed, but go in strong.

I always go in strong....cheese out sometimes and lower my price, because I am way too nice, but I still start with strength. You might be surprised by the results.

Work your magic Mo...they want you to have that job, make it so that you want to have it as well. I think $5 is your magic number, but I still would start the discussion at $6 or better...it really is a draining job.

Good advice Rob. The cleaning crew gave them a quote and the mgr said the owners will not be paying that much to clean them so I do have the inside track on this one. I feel back pain just thinking about this one.

From what I recall you ended up cleaning the theatre seats by yourself the last time right?

Mo wrote:Good advice Rob. The cleaning crew gave them a quote and the mgr said the owners will not be paying that much to clean them so I do have the inside track on this one. I feel back pain just thinking about this one.

From what I recall you ended up cleaning the theatre seats by yourself the last time right?

Pretty close...only had one helper (first day), so it was a bear.

What always slowed us down the most was just moving cords and hoses down the aisles as they get trapped in the row of the seats next to you...really drives you crazy. If nothing else, you need someone there to keep that from happening or else you will be throwing your tools through the wall after a few hours.

Pace is important on these things and make it a point to straighten up and stretch a little after EVERY row or else you will be struggling towards the end. Once you find the right pace, it moves along with good efficiency.

It also looks like you don't have to deal with popcorn oil, sodas, gum etc. on this job...is that true? I don't see cup holders and being a staged theater there probably wasn't food allowed. That should save you a ton of time...probably down to 1 minute per chair at a leisurely pace.

I would bid it at $2 ($880) and do the job with a helper and plan on a full 12 hour day. Lets say you end up paying out $250 for the help, supplies, and fuel; your taking home $630. I'd take that any day of the week. I would bet that (if they are bidding and hopeful of getting the carpet acct) Stanley will come in at $2, Chem will come in at $3, and most anyone else will be between $2 - $2.50. Good Luck.
PS. I ran movie theatres for about a dozen years. As the GM of a theatre, I would never pay more than $2 per seat.

Wow, Joe you would do 480 theater chairs for $880?!?........less then $2 ea??..........or did I do that wrong?

If so, the Job is YOURS!...........I have no desire to even compete with that by taking the time creating a bid to propose to them for that.

There is a difference between a movie theater and a stage theater. A movie theater just wants to get the basics done, but the stage theater normally has a different standard as they cater to a different customer base.

There are many theaters around her that are paying less than $2 per seat as well, but they do it every 2 weeks to a month, so those companies are chasing volume.

I have 3 theaters on my rotation quarterly and I do them at $4 per seat, but we also get the carpets in the aisles and lobby. Even then, I would not clean seats for $2....hate doing it at $4, but I agreed to contract when I was hungry.

The worst issue is the time involved. It is night work so you and your crew really can't get much done during the day prior to this kind of job nor the day after. So, you are taking a loss in productivity for 3 days in order to clean that theater. That $800 net isn't going to cut it for 3 days of work, in essence.

For the loss of productivity for 3 days, I shoot for at least $1200 net and hope for $1500. Then it is worth it to spend the long night cleaning seats.

milspec6 wrote:...............The worst issue is the time involved.  It is night work so you and your crew really can't get much done during the day prior to this kind of job nor the day after.  So, you are taking a loss in productivity for 3 days in order to clean that theater.  That $800 net isn't going to cut it for 3 days of work, in essence.

For the loss of productivity for 3 days, I shoot for at least $1200 net and hope for $1500.  Then it is worth it to spend the long night cleaning seats.

That is exactly what I've experienced when doing jobs that basically take all night, it kills being productive for a couple days. I guess if I was still young that may be different, but I no longer am.

Anything under $ 100 / hr is not a good source of income for me because after all direct impact expenses ( labor, fuel and cleaning solution ) it's going to come out to about $ 40 - $ 50 / hr, that's not counting non direct expenses like wear and tear of equipments and vans, when that machine is running for an hour or two in a residential homes and running for 12 hours non stop, that's a huge difference, many things can go wrong, a failed sensor can cost me anywhere from $ 100 - $ 300 ! Dave, don't even go there about prochem parts rip off like I don't know that already, lol.
Like Dave said yesterday at lunch, someone has to pay his bills, in this case, the theater's GM has to pay my bills if he wants me to clean for him, I can't tell you how many times customers tell me "oh you're more expensive than Stanley steemer and Sears" and I told them yes we are cause we're not on their level, we're much better than them and they ended up scheduling with us anyway, sometimes all it takes just a solid confidence, show them before and after pics and videos, and your online reviews.

Davey Cracker wrote:Wow, Joe you would do 480 theater chairs for $880?!?........less then $2 ea??..........or did I do that wrong?

If so, the Job is YOURS!...........I have no desire to even compete with that by taking the time creating a bid to propose to them for that.

I meant $2 - so $960, which would make my Profit for that day over $700. Sure it's a long day and sure it is going to make my personal hourly rate lower than normal. But, 1 - I protected my carpet account, 2- I am not losing money by driving around all day between jobs, and 3 - $700 in the bank after expenses for one day of work is a nice chunk of change. At least for me... So yep I would take $2 per chair any day of the week.

I guess the time of year should be included in this discussion. If it was the dead of winter where the jobs are hard to come by, then making any money is better than not making anything and productivity isn't a big concern.

Then again, I am old and cleaning theater seats are hard on the back. I would still pass on the $2 rate, because my Chiropractor isn't cheap.

What's the progress Mo, did you come to terms yet?

dp1 wrote:Anything under $ 100 / hr is not a good source of income for me because after all direct impact expenses ( labor, fuel and cleaning solution ) it's going to come out to about $ 40 - $ 50 / hr, that's not counting non direct expenses like wear and tear of equipments and vans, when that machine is running for an hour or two in a residential homes and running for 12 hours non stop, that's a huge difference, many things can go wrong, a failed sensor can cost me anywhere from $ 100 - $ 300 ! Dave, don't even go there about prochem parts rip off like I don't know that already, lol.
Like Dave said yesterday at lunch, someone has to pay his bills, in this case, the theater's GM has to pay my bills if he wants me to clean for him, I can't tell you how many times customers tell me "oh you're more expensive than Stanley steemer and Sears" and I told them yes we are cause we're not on their level, we're much better than them and they ended up scheduling with us anyway, sometimes all it takes just a solid confidence, show them before and after pics and videos, and your online reviews.

Couldn't have said it better! Especially about Prochem parts cost, they lost a customer for life by trying to charge me $500+ for an alternator that ended up costing $70 at the local auto parts store. I digress, charge more not less. WE DO NOT CHARGE ENOUGH! Has anybody had another service in to their homes lately? Davey Cracker has it right as well, If your just starting out ok, charge what you need to. It cost more to run your business than you think. Wear and tear on equipment can not be overlooked, Insurance, fuel, chemicals.......

Haven't send over a proposal yet Rob. Still deciding weather I even want to do it. Hopefully my competitors aren't reading this form

If you don't want to do it then shoot for higher price, at least if you get it, you wouldn't feel bad about it

dp1 wrote:If you don't want to do it then shoot for higher price, at least if you get it, you wouldn't feel bad about it

I agree. I have no doubt that they want you to clean them, but they have to decide if they can afford you. I would take Dp's advice and quote a little higher and if they can't cover it, try and schedule it down the road to allow them to be in a better situation to pay your price. There probably isn't a hurry on this kind of cleaning.