Freeze Proof

We finally exited the 90 degree weather and are now in a cold (low 60's) rainy period, so I once again started to think about the need to protect against freezing temperatures. I don't know what I am going to do with the box truck this year...maybe it sells off, maybe it sells minus the TM, or maybe it doesn't sell at all. I need to make plans for each.

So, in the event that I keep the set-up, I need to make it usable during the below freezing temps. I winterize and add heaters at night, but it is not practical to keep winterizing after every job driving to and from home. I already installed that bus heater, but it is inadequate.

Here is what I want to do. Like a firetruck, I want to be able to recirculate the water while I am on the road through the entire TM system. I am thinking that I can add a booster pump to the system and install dual port manifolds on the CAT pump so that I can bypass it. The booster pump would draw from the water box and circulate it through the heater, back to the control panel, and then with a courtesy hose connected, back into the water box. Just direct wire the booster to the Isuzu and done. I figure that a 200 psi pump should be strong enough to pull it off.

What do you think? I have never seen how a fire truck does it, but I think this might work. I will not be able to use the fresh water tank, but that is okay as it will just be for commercial jobs anyway where they have more robust freeze protected water access.

Wow, I was not really thinking too well there.....bypassing the CAT pump would mean frozen CAT pump even if everything else was good.

Will have to think that over some more.

I think you need a garage. I usually keep my van outside and bring it in when it gets below freezing

I'll have to think on that myself.

Mo wrote:I think you need a garage. I usually keep my van outside and bring it in when it gets below freezing

It would have to be a very big garage to fit a box truck Mo....and it would have to be on wheels to protect the equipment while I am on the road.

Ok Job here's what I'm thinking. By putting tee's at the pump head at the in and out port's with valves to cut off and on so that your booster pump will work. If I'm understanding you right, you will pull water out of the water box. The same way the cat pump does then from the booster to the heater and back to the water Bx. In that configuration if you are circulating hot water that close to the pump head. The water should warm the pump head and protect the pump.

ACE Services wrote:Ok Job here's what I'm thinking. By putting tee's at the pump head at the in and out port's with valves to cut off and on so that your booster pump will work. If I'm understanding you right, you will pull water out of the water box. The same way the cat pump does then from the booster to the heater and back to the water Bx. In that configuration if you are circulating hot water that close to the pump head. The water should warm the pump head and protect the pump.

The problem is that the water wouldn't be heated...just in motion, but brings up an idea. I could install a heat exchanger near the TM with engine coolant circulating through it like my Butler uses. Then I would have some very warm water being circulated throughout the system. I still think the CAT pump will be at risk being bypassed.

In fact, the coolant lines already run back there to the bus heater. A heat exchanger wouldn't be a difficult set-up although maybe all this is a crazy idea.

This is not easy and a little crazy idea, will definitely require you to pull the pump out, wrap the hx pipes around the pump and as the hot water or coolant circulating, the hx pipe will warm the pump. Just another crazy idea from a guy who never dealt with freezing temp, sorry

All ideas have value and it is noted.

In the end, I will likely just be selling off this truck this month once my Butler Van is back on the road. I just want to have a back-up plan just in case.

Still too many variables yet in play that will need to be settled before I know for certain.

I forgot it's a box truck. It's a nice set up Bob you shouldn't have any trouble selling it

It is a nice set-up, really enjoy working out of it when I do, just not much value in the cold. If I could afford to hold onto it I would just winterize it and hold onto it, but that doesn't look good right now.

You’re on the right track in selling it though, seems like you’re flexible enough to separate the unit and the truck, I would imagine it’s easier selling separately and you most likely will get more $$ too, there are quite a bit of suckers for TNT, post the unit everywhere in the net and I’m sure you’ll sell it in a few weeks.

"...suckers for TNT"? I resemble that statement.

Actually, there are only 2 of us that I know of in this State. They are just too expensive to ship out this way. It makes it sort of a novelty.

I have continued to think about this and have a couple of other thoughts.

1. Since the CAT pump can be bypassed for flood work, could I just install an electric 12v motor to drive the CAT pump while on the road? Seems like that would be the least amount of work and then just run a hose off the front panel back to the water box.

2. I have access to a used coolant heat exchanger from an old Butler van and since I already have engine coolant lines running to the bus heater, I could plumb it and tie the lines to the TM to get 200 degree water for circulation. That would also allow me to get hot water in the event that the LG heater fails although that diesel really doesn't generate much heat unless it is under load. Even at an elevated idle it doesn't get much heat until you drive it.

Even the electric motor driving the CAT pump should be adequate to prevent freezing except for maybe sub-zero temps which I will not clean in anyway.

Plus, with the electric motor driving the CAT pump, when parked I can use the Little Giant and get all the hot water that I want without having to run the motor on the TNT.

Am I on the right track here or not? I figure that I have about 3 weeks left to get this plan into action and I am sort of mentally chasing my tail right now.

Well, to do the electric motor design I would need a 1/4 hp motor....that is a pretty big motor.

After thinking this through, I am just going to plan on winterizing the unit and leaving it out of service until Spring. The only safe way to protect it is to not use it.

The cost to winterize between jobs would be too high with cost of glycol-based RV antifreeze being up around $8 - $14 per gallon with 4 gallons needed to winterize....it would add up pretty quick.

Maybe I should sell it instead....will have to think about that one again, but it really is a great vehicle to work out of. I have logged just over 34 hours on it this month and it was a pleasant experience with another estimated 18 hours yet to go before the month is over. I just worry about the cost of parts on these trucks and the fact that it will not be earning any money until March...just costing me money.

Tough call to make right now.

Just how cold does it there? Never been to Nebraska.

ACE Services wrote:Just how cold does it there? Never been to Nebraska.

Normally, we would have snow already and be below freezing at night...it is very odd to not be. We normally stay in the high teens to low 20's for our highs and then single digit lows for most of the winter with at least a couple of weeks where we can stay below 0 for 3-4 days at a time.

Hmm, I’m not good with these kind of stuffs plus freezing condition that I’m absolutely not familiar with, so I can’t comment on that, however knowing how much you do commercial work and that usually takes a few hours at a time, I would not sell it unless if I’m planning to buy another unit.
Plus, I imagine with winter coming in and economy is not doing better, it would be hard to sell the set up in a price point that’s acceptable to you, that’s why I stated in my CL ads, that I’m not in a hurry to sell and that my price is firm to eliminate low ballers.
I don’t do a lot of commercial but a second / back up van is an absolute must for me, nothing worst than leaving pre sprays all over customer’s carpet without being able to rinse them out.

The backup availability is a HUGE issue to me and why I started to build this truck in the first place. Winter is very hard on equipment and when you run them hard for 6 hours at a time, it only gets worse.

Last year I had two breakdowns with the Butler that left a job half done and the box truck wasn't ready for work due to that heater issue so it was a bad situation. Having the second truck is a huge stress reliever.

I am thinking about training my cousin to be a tech and then bringing both vehicles to the job. The box truck will remain winterized, but be used to carry that 350 feet of hose and tools to the job instead of shoving them into the van....which is murder. That would make it so much easier to load / unload and allow a second TM if really needed.

It wastes fuel and adds some risks of accidents, but it might be the best option for now and then when things get busy in March he will be skilled enough to run a truck solo for me.

That sounds like a GREAT plan ! Especially he must’ve qualified for family discounts on payroll right ?
$ 10 / hour is a heck of a deal !

Well forget the cousin idea, that kid has a lazy streak the size of Texas. His wife is about to give birth to his 3rd kid in 5 years and he has been asking to make some extra money.

I called him with my plan and asked if he would join me on a few of the jobs left this month to learn the ropes. The response I got was not very encouraging...."I was thinking like for a couple hours from time to time, not 5 in one evening".

We have talked about this before, but the kid has been married for 5 years, about to get his 3rd child and still working at the same job that he did when he left high school 8 years ago. Now he is turning down $20 / hr as a helper and 50% of any solo jobs that he does in the future.

I give up, will have to work solo until I die.

Sounds like my step son, he quit last month, left $ 18 / hour plus commisssion on scotchgard sales ( 30% ) plus tips for a $ 14 / hour security job, he said that’s an easy job, carpet cleaning is a hard job, after tips and scotchgard commission, he’s making well over $ 20 / hour and he chose $ 14 / hour job, kids these days, they just want easy and they just want to be fed with a gold spoon, damn I sounded like my dad when I was a teenager, lol.

That is about the size of it though, they don't want to do any work. You can get them to go spend hours in the gym, but ask them to lift something off a truck and they crawl under a rock.

It is getting to be a really scary future in this country.

Winter begins Wed. evening. Temps will be dropping from the afternoon onward to about freezing, but the high for Thursday will be 37 with a low of around 22 at night.

I guess I ran out of time....will have to winterize in place. I might even use the automotive antifreeze on this one. Most of the RV anitfreeze available around here are alcohol based and still freeze up when mixed with ANY water as well as dry out seals.

Worst part is that I have that Church job on Thursday and really wanted to use the TNT on that one since it hasn't been cleaned in about a decade. I just hope the Butler van is ready by then and reliable.