Tierd of your truckmount???

If you love your truckmount then please disregard this message. I have had several, I understand.
But if your looking to ad encapsulation or get off of the truck completely then you need to check out and then attend the CT6 Elite Low Moisture Training Program on June 3rd in Philadelphia for the "Ultimate Encap"  or on June4th for the "Janitorial Focus" course.

Get complete course information at : www.bonnetpro.com

Tired of swirling dirt around?

Both methods have their place IMO.

So long as a VLM guy doesn't try to BS me and tell me VLM is good for urine, feces and blood, then I'll listen.

Encap and padcap are two different processes.

I've talked to John, and he does not recommend VLM with urine.

"Tired of swirling dirt around?"

Where do you get that from?

It's just the back and forth hating that done when people talk VLM and HWE. 

We've heard to all before, just no one until you have been persistent enough to educate to the last point with out getting side tracked in the back and forth banter. 

Keep it up John. I can appreciate the good points.

Tierd of your truckmount???

so I asked tired of swirling the dirt around

I'm sorry we all know the soil removal is minimal with any vlm rotary or bonnet cleaning.

But some times in pure visual retention the vlm which does not remove much soils in many times looks cleaner than it really is.

We cant reach everything with hwe and many time it's not economical so.

When I do VLM or bonnet encap or what ever I do not lie to my customers telling them it is really cleaning like with high heat truck mount will.

Then I do what they want done some times clean is not as important as just looking good and not really clean.

I gave you a point Terry, cause I wanted you to have more than me and the context of your description was accurate and on topic. You may work half day tomorrow and ski the afternoon.

"so I asked tired of swirling the dirt around

I'm sorry we all know the soil removal is minimal with any vlm rotary or bonnet cleaning."

You only swirl when the pad is full and you continue to operate the machine. Its more than minimal depending on the pads, quaility of chem ect.

If I extract and the residue from the extraction causes the carpet to resoil at a faster rate, how well have I " cleaned the carpet"? And we both know this happens.

If I extract and leave the carpet wet for hours and it happens especially in basements and humid areas, and I open the door for bacterial growth how well have I cleaned the carpet?

I have had many truckmounts and portables so I know where your coming from. But a carpet that dries in under and hour or so that leaves a filming polymer that cuts off oxygen from bacteria is a cleaner carpet by at least one definition of clean. Thats why I dont use crystallizing polymers.

One other thing I would like to point out. When I come on these threads I dont try and sell my stuff for the most part I try to respond to the questions as a fellow cleaner. I also sell extraction chems so I dont have a stake one way or the other. I have just seen what encap has done for our cleaning and restoration firm and how much more we use LM now over extraction. I love extraction, just dont short change encapsulation.

My friend told me the other day he really loves his wife, but he cant stand being around her because she is a nag.

If I extract and the residue from the extraction causes the carpet to resoil at a faster rate, how well have I " cleaned the carpet"? And we both know this happens.

If I extract and leave the carpet wet for hours and it happens especially in basements and humid areas, and I open the door for bacterial growth how well have I cleaned the carpet?

These are all arguments of poor workmanship. Tread lightly on these type comments. Most of the members here are not poor cleaners. These are lines that are seen in VLM marketing. I would certainly welcome your knowledge and 30 plus years experience to strengthen my knowledge, which is very low when it comes to vlm. I would suggest your approach HERE is a little off target.

I would guess myself that over 50% of the active members here use VLM SYSTEM in their cleaning.

I think you pretty much stepped your foot in it with the

Tired of your truck mount thing

some thing tells me this was a Freudian slip you typed exactly what was on your mind.

Your barking up the wrong tree here most use vlm here like I do and selectivity it's not our only tool in the tool box like the other VLM only space cadets.

Showing a pad in a washer with some dirty water heck I see this when I wash my underwear.

What does happen and I have experienced this many times that carpet that have been bonnet cleaned or vlm encaped for years will need to be rinsed.

The colour of the water out of the waste tank in black filthy coffee mud

The VLM vs HWE debate is great topic for a carpet cleaning forum. But from a pure business point of view if you're not offering it your leaving money on the table.

it's not the only tool in our box. Exactly

why would there be residue left after extraction?

ACpower1 wrote:why would there be residue left after extraction?

Cleaning chemicals poor quality, wrong mixtures, technicians errors, etc.
A lot of newbies think that cleaning carpet is one size fits all, spit suck and you're done, we all know there's much more than that.

I was a hwe-only guy, but I have experienced the value in a vlm method in your tool box. Just like a rotary extractor should be in that quiver of arrows instead of just wands.

The key to me is that each method comes with negatives and limitations, but when combined, they improve each other to deliver excellent results. I am not strictly a hwe cleaner any more....I am a combo cleaner who uses both methods to support each other.

It is like cleaning your car. You wash it and it will look clean, but it really helps to wax it on occassion to really make it stand-out. Now you can use a cleaner wax on light soil and it will look great after wiping it down, but if you try that on heavy soil...you get bad results. To me, vlm is a cleaner wax that compliments a good washing and can work with light soils, but should not be used on heavy soil. On heavy soil loads, the pressure washer is the better method followed by the waxing.

I think you can achieve this by simply using a quality encap with your prespray beneath a rotary extractor. When you run that rotary (rx-20, hoss, etc) dry, it provides an agitation similar to the pad under a floor machine (encap cleaning) and then you follow it up with the rotary jets to flush out the soil (hwe cleaning). The encap polymer will still remain partly to prevent re-soil / wicking and you get the best of the two methods without having to wash a couple of dozen bonnets.

It simply comes down to your favorite manner of extraction....bonnets or rinse. The rest is the same in my mind. Try this method with your rotary and see what I mean....it has been working very well.

"I think you pretty much stepped your foot in it with the

Tired of your truck mount thing

some thing tells me this was a Freudian slip you typed exactly what was on your mind."

The teacher Im flying in trains guys who want to get off of the truck due to costs or whatever the reason so I asked the exact question I meant to ask. Like I said If your happy with your truck I said I understand, and the thread is not targeted to you. But there are guys that are getting older or for whatever other reason they have that do want to stop dragging hose and do something else.

As far as resoling. If you extract with another detergent as your rinse it will resoil quicker. That has nothing to do with anyone's ability to clean or their experience. I always clear water rinse instead of using a detergent rinse. Just what I have seen in my 30 years. No need to take offense as its not meant as an attack.

I have a question for you. How dirty is the water that is in your waste tank after you clean with extraction either by a truckmount or portable?

after cleaning a carpet that has been bonnet cleaned for years it's black coffee mud.

Good, now how dirty is the water you left in the carpet after extraction?

With proper rinsing and recovery....there shouldn't be dirty water left.

It keeps coming down to quality of work. VLM in the hands of a person who knows what they are doing equals quality results. Same goes for HWE, criticisms of either method should be based on quality work only, that is the where the real comparisons should reside.

^^^^ Nail on Head!!^^

Bonnet Pro wrote:Good, now how dirty is the water you left in the carpet after extraction?

What water sir ? I don't leave water in my customer's carpets, I leave slight moistures which dries in 1 - 2 hours WITHOUT fans ( most carpets ), similar drying time with vlm / bonnet cleaning :-)
If cleaning is done properly, regardless of blower size, jet size and wand size, etc, any steam cleaners should be able to reach similar drying time, now the problem lays in brand new cleaners that dgas about drying time, that's when I agree with your question, especially combined with too much detergents left and customers walking all over it while it's still wet, that would be BAD !
Not disrespecting you or bonnet cleaning or vlm methods, just stating my opinion based on facts :-)

Well, that because 626 cleaning Snobs like yourself have 6 Million CFM with your T-Rex sized blowers, That the rest of us normal cleaners can't afford!    

Davey Cracker wrote:Well, that because 626 cleaning Snobs like yourself have 6 Million CFM with your T-Rex sized blowers, That the rest of us normal cleaners can't afford!     

LOL !