The brown out carpet from hell

I know 2 people with this exact stainmaster carpet. My parents and one of my customers that weve serviced about 6 times over the last 5 years.

This is an expensive "ultra-plush", literally like walking on a pillow. No matter how you clean this stuff, it browns out.

-Cleaned with s/o and soft water rinse, 400 psi, fans, pre vac---- browned out
went back and fixed with encap (s/o/e) and pads.

-Cleaned with natural orange (7pH) and soft water rinse, 400 psi and same fans pre vac... browned out again
returned again and fixed with encap

-cleaned with procyon powder and acid rinse, 250 psi and my 4.5 flow wand, same fans prevac -- f-ing browned out again
fixed with encap and even raked the damn thing this time which I never do.

-cleaned with encap, s/o/e, pre vac, dry crb, then crb, and spun pads... can u believe it the browning rings came back again

went back and fixed it with a really light acid rinse 250 psi, and really light encap spray


neither of them use spotters, rug doctor, or home machines which is usually what can cause a brown out after a cleaning if there is excessive residue.


This carpet is just annoying, Ive never seen anything this plush.. if you imagine a standard stainmaster plush, this is like 2x as thick
when you walk on it you leave foot prints like your walking in the snow.

I told my mom that this is the wrong carpet for a house with a backyard and someone that gardens, and grandkids, dogs etc.. carpet retailer of course said this is the best of the best stuff. I disagree, its like having a white memory foam mattress on your floor and using it as a napkin for your feet.


I think with this carpet its critical that nobody can walk on it at all, or even sneeze on it until its 100% dry... when you walk on it, it compresses down so much that the carpet cant dry.



so any ideas? how would you guys approach something like this? Ive seen this carpet in those 2 places and never anywhere else in 4000 homes.

I have only run into this one time so far (knock on wood), but it was located in a sitting room. You know the room that nobody is allowed to be in, just for looks at the entry. It just received a rinsing at 100 psi.

Would this carpet be brown in color? Maybe it isn't really browning as it is bleeding? I almost never run into browning any more since the cottons went away, but I have had some that were bleed in the presence of a strong alkaline.

its white white, not even cream.    and to best describe it..   its almost like a memory foam mattress, this stuff you absolutely have to pre vac its incredibly dense.

the spots are tell tale cellulosic browning

I told both my parents and my customer that the carpet retailers really arent the best to get advice from...  they push usually what they make the most money on and very few have any experience maintaining carpet.


I think when I run into this stuff again I will only dry compound clean it

I think I've seen and felt those a couple of times AC but they weren't wall to wall. They were walk off mats and runners they felt really nice to walk on great shock absorption.

Wow, that is not what I ran into then at all......no idea what to tell you.

Thanks for the warning though....I will be looking out for this stuff.

Is that the kind that its so plush that the wand locks down real good?
Did one of those soft and thick; felt like the wand weighted 30#.
After 2 rooms, I had to take a break. My arms were tired.
Next time; "Mame, we no longer do residential".

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:Is that the kind that its so plush that the wand locks down real good?
Did one of those soft and thick; felt like the wand weighted 30#.
After 2 rooms, I had to take a break. My arms were tired.
Next time; "Mame, we no longer do residential".

That was the stuff I was thinking (smartstrand I think), but it sounds like he ran into a whole different animal.

Super pre vac, low psi, and encap rinse (you know the stuff you call "car wax" lol) to help prevent it from browning.

Where is this problem occurring?......real high traffic areas?
Sounds like it could be embedded soil not being removed by vacuuming, because it's so dense.
What is the fiber type?
You need to solve the mystery with some Q&A if you want to figure out the cause.

Have you spread the fibers and looked down into them, or down to the backing?

The great thing about encap is we can now easily correct most browning with it, and not have to worry agbout it coming back.

its a rare carpet and low traffic both places,   not much dry soil if any.    

not embedded soil because its brown out not soil wicking

its nylon

very rare carpet though,  I wouldnt be surprised if many cleaners have never ran into it before

nothing I can really say, other than I think its something that they didnt make much of? its literally 1 inch thick but not shag, really dense nylon

You should do a burn test to find out exactly the type of fibers, and then go from there.
I've had similar issue a long time ago when I was still an employee of a carpet cleaning company out in the bay area, but it was not densed or expensive carpets, plus we didn't pre vac, so I'm sure it was a different situation than what you're facing, not much help here, sorry.

ya it is nylon for sure, they even still had the info on it from the purchase because it was very recent.

seems like its so incredibly dense that it just cant release the moisture, you should see how deep the foot prints are in it.. like walking in snow

You said they still had the details on it.....did you get a brand or product name?

ya stain master "ultra plush" I think was the exact model

Thanks for the heads up....one more thing to add to my questions when a customer calls for service.

Now that I think about it, isn't that one of the Smartstrand Silk products....just the most plush version?

I don't envy you, that smartsrand one that I ran into nearly killed my vacuum cleaner. I can't imagine how you would deal with an "ultraplush"

Sounds like smartstrand to me too............isn't that just some wonder stuff?

Someone needs to build a 4 foot wide Flowbie for those carpets....just snip off the tips of the fibers and it will be like new.

I remember the Flowbie!!!!

And you're right, a hair cut, that's prob the only way to make that stuff look good again.

MOW that Carpet!

Acid rinse didn't do it??

Ive cleaned good smart strand and bad smartstrand.     It comes in a lot of different styles,  some low pile staple and some cut pile.    

for the most part its been fine but have seen some really bad installs on it for some reason.

this one is labeled as StainMaster ultra plush nlyon, but not BCF nylon which is what I have mostly seen when in the stores.. it just said nylon  


nah Matt acid rinse didnt do it,     I was really surprised...

ACpower1 wrote:

the spots are tell tale cellulosic browning

Cellulosic browning conditions require cellulose, which is ONLY present in natural fibers, mainly cotton and Jute backings.
Natural fibers containing cellulose, if left too wet for an extended period of time, will turn brown as the cellulose breaks down.

Unless there is a natural fiber component somewhere, you should be thinking more in the terms of wicking.

The dense plush could be extending dry times just enough to bring "something" to the surface.

Hows the ventilation?

What are you getting in your vac canister?

Are there any FINE soils in the immediate environment?

Dusts? Soots? Dander? Backing deterioration?

BTW, I find most people that use carpet fresh type powders, for some reason, rarely fess up to it.

Try getting down close and separating the fibers to see if there is an accumulation of this "something" at the base of the fibers..............gotta be something there.

No cellulose=WICKING.

^Nice Post!! +1

yes brown out,         jute backing on nylon very common

"The dense plush could be extending dry times just enough to bring "something" to the surface."

this is exactly what I was talking about ^  earlier in the thread


its carpet staying wet at either too high pH or too low pH for too long that causes the jute to bleed

but this backing seems to bleed very easily, so not too sure I guess the backing is just weak or breaking down easily for some reason

Sounds like the perfect backing and dense carpet to create a bad mold infestation under the right conditions....might also be why the backing is breaking down.

It's too bad they don't have any spare pieces you could take home and investigate farther.

How does it respond to a CRB? Will a tool like that open the weave up enough to improve air flow or does it just bog down and crap out?

This carpet is curious thing.....probably end up being only for wall installations at insane asylums or something.

ACpower1 wrote:yes brown out, jute backing on nylon very common

I was under the impression that Jute was predominantly used for the weft of woven products, especially wool and sisal weave area rugs.

The only wall to wall products I was aware of that possibly contained Jute were higher end woven wools like Axminsters.

I couldn't find any products specifically using the name "ultra plush".

Anyway you can get in touch with the installer for more specific info?

Either way, I think trying to manually spread the fibers in several different areas to get a visual of the base might very well give up some clues, or even popping up a corner and bending the carpet back to expose the core, and even getting a peek underneath for possible reasons.



Maybe dry vac, LIGHT encap mist, damp cottons then airmovers to force dry?