The Royal Rumble

"I used to drop ship my tools to your costumers, but I never get paid."

BS
You haven't drop shipped for me in a long time, like over two years, I can't even remember when was the last time.
Can you? Name one customer or address where you haven't been paid.

I said "used", which meant in the past (2 years) so of course you didn't get anything recently. You say you don't remember the last time, how the heck do you expect me to remember the name of one costumer? Like I said, LET IT GO. What do you want, in order to clear this matter between us?

I just want you to tell the truth.
Say, "I'm a copy-cat artist. I have no real contribution to this industry. I just sort of snuck in here a few years ago working for the other people who started the wand knockoff business and here I am. I will make anything you want. Cheap labor. low quality, false claims and lousy consistency. But if you have cash, I will make anything you want. I am Tony Dang."

Whaaahhh…..Tony Dang fudged me!!
Whaaahhh…. Bob Foster fudged me!!!
Whaaahhh…. Mytee fudged me!!!
Whaaaahh…. The Devastator guy fudged me!!
Whaaaahh…. Mo's fucking me!!!

Anyone have a pacifier?

I admit, I am a copy-cat artist. I try to make improvements on the products. People ask me to make products for them, so I just try my best. You haven't seen my products in years. You would be surprised about how the quality is. It is cheaper than the originals, but made from the best materials I could get.  About my quality, just let the cleaners decide.
This is the truth

Thank you tony Dang.

Campuscc, You got a name?

Big man on campus just ran off.
Do you have a name or are you a hit & run Coward?

Haha great one Mo, on the new thread name!

Funny because I told DP a couple hrs ago this thread needed a name change to: Gang Fight!!

I think most things are copied, what wand is really new? Wands have been around for years, some copies come out better some come out worse.
The only wand I know of that really stands out is the EVO wands, and they are still coming from a hydra hoe in a way
Judson came out with the TM so now all others are copycats. I guess in a way that is true, but just about anything in this world has been duplicated

"I admit, I am a copy-cat artist. I try to make improvements on the products... "


Name one product that you have actually improved on.

I think Tony can say he is making improvements on the things he makes. So he makes a copy of a wand and Joe you say they suck so Tony goes back and starts to put more effort in the products he makes, be it for you or for himself, the improvements are trying to be made. He being the maker of them if HE WANTS can make them as high quality as he wants and in time if he chooses to do so will only get better.
We all get better the more we try.

Joe speaking of copy
Why when I stopped putting Mytee cuffs and came out with out with a purpose built metal port no cuff needed...I get a call, all of the sudden pics of the RC99 now needed no cuffs?
We new the price was kinda high so we offered free shipping...I get a call hey Joe is now offering free shipping too.
Kinda weird

What in the world is happening here? I leave for a couple of days in Wisconsin and this thread has turned into a knife fight.

First, let me say this. I joined this group, because it was an honest bunch. The other boards are full of members that are bought off and can't give an honest opinion any more. It is like walking onto a car lot and asking the Cadillac salesman about the Lincoln he has on the lot...you will not get an honest report. Dishonest information will not help me in any way, so I chose to hang out here.

Isn't that why you all came here? So, I never understand what good it does to venture onto other boards...let them live in their own world where it is all about the money. I grew up in a bad neighborhood, but when I moved to a nice one, I never went back to spar with my enemies...I didn't care what they thought or spoke of me in the hood, it wasn't part of my life any more.

Joe, believe me, you are not fighting for your life here...your castle is secure. Those that are seeking honesty will always seek you out regardless of what some fools might say about you in the ghetto. I have an ex that will say a lot of vial things about me in my home town, but there aren't many that will believe her...they know me better than that. Same goes for you.

I am beginning to believe that boards are like dating. Everyone starts off on their best behavior and it is all exciting and good. Then over time, a few irritating flaws develop and they fester until one day it ends in a shouting match and slamming doors. Is that we are at now?

The secret to any relationship is honesty. If we stand on that principle, this board will succeed where all the others have failed. A touch of politeness wouldn't hurt either...

Yes, 'improvement' should only be used in reference to what it's relative to. Like relative to your first attempt or relative to what was out there before you started.
Tom, you went through about 7 improvements on yours to get it to where it is. I've been through four, I think it is.  I'm pretty happy with mine and you are yours.
Yet you claim to be getting a patent on a filter. REALLY?
No reference to any other filter? So you have invented THE Filter.  I call BS.
You have probably just filed for an improvement to a filter, right? Big differnece.
You've said repeatedly you have patent on a filter as if you plan to stop anyone from even making a filter. I guarantee you that is BS. It is classic example though of what I have seen in you - that we need some kind of permission from you just to make a filter. What a selfish stance on your part. Completely bogus too.
I think I'll make 5 different filters just to show you how wrong you are.

Utility Patents let you protect well defined words that describe the specific feature(s) of your invention. If yours is merely a siphoning or funneling means of extracting water from the back of the filter then it is not a patent on a filter at all is it? It is a merely a patent on an accessory to a filter, like a hood ornament to a car, not at all necessary and questionable as far its usefulness. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it, you're merely protecting a straw in the back of a filter? Is that it?
Did you address the latent water dripping from the bag inside? If so, cool.
If not, Id' say you wasted your money because the whole idea of a patent is to protect something worth protecting. Your patent won't wring the bag dry thus the filter will still collect water inside. So what's the point? Your patent doesn't even solve a problem. No real improvement except the Patent office has another 10k or so in its coffer.
Millions on millions of patents make not a dime for the inventor. What a shame.

Cool Cuffs protected the thread & taper design, then later incorporated a swiveling means. That's all. But that's all I needed to protect to ensure it would best cuff ever.
I tested all the other means and learned that the thread & taper was the best way to go. 10 years later, how many people have tried to copy me? Five I think now?  And how many actually made an improvement over mine?  Zero.  Although I only have one claim, it is a very useful one.  All those people who sold their knockoffs on the basis theirs was an improvement over mine are now seen as liars. Tough luck. Lesson to all attempting improvements, better do your homework. Don't waste your time & money protecting something that isn't going to be a real improvement.

Tony.... I say he just makes stuff good enough to sell. Mostly, he uses lies to fool people like I just demonstrated as he & Gerson successfully pulled off at the last trade Show.
Tony's never done anything original as far as I know. All he does it take the hard work of others and call it his.
Worst of all, to my knowledge, he's never made anything that is any better than what he was trying to copy.    

So again I ask you Tony, name one product that you have actually improved on.

free shipping? Not me.
I have always tried to keep shipping low as I can, but certainly not free.
I guess you're trying to create another lie that I somehow copied you on that too.
How desperate are you Tom?

I've never given free shipping.
Actually shouldn't say never as I often do on product demos, replacements, etc, but as a rule, I charge for it because shipping is not free and anyone saying it is probably using it as a marketing tool to get mo money out of you. I'd just rather keep prices low and quality high thus share the value with those who deserve it.

It might be Paul you're referring to. He owns the store. I just provide product and support for it. But you gotta call me to get it. The phone works great at separating the men from the boys.  
Paul sets his own pricing and I set mine. Mine is set at $99, thus the name RC99.  I asked him to charge more for guys who weren't buying it with Cool cuffs but he jacked up the shipping instead.
There is some pretty steep padding built into the shipping. Not something I would do but I can't make him do anything.  Also, store purchasers get the old versions like leaky cuffs, and old style baskets. Only the guys who call me direct get the best I got. Works out great this way. If you're man enough to call me then you get the best of everything I have. Those little men, internet introverts mostly, they get sloppy seconds. That's fair isn't it?

Speaking of welded ports, if you're implying I copied you there, wrong again stud.
As you should know, welded ports have been around since Judson created the truckmount and harvesters sowed the fields.
$99 or $399. Take your pick guys.  

Talk about weird. I just sold an RC99 to guy who'd bot an Amtex.
He'd gotten your filter with it and the damned thing had barbs on it. WTF Tom?
This guy wanted to upgrade from the POS vinyl cuffs that Ben sold him to genuine Cool cuffs, but not gonna happen with those old school barbs.
What are you guys thinking?  
I showed him the Silver Bullet and he said, "wow how come I never seen this before?"
All I could tell him was the truth - well, you hang out on tmf where they do their best to hide me...  or in your case, discredit me.  Sorry Tom, but you lose again.
He is gonna be so excited when he sees what 99 bucks can buy.

The lesson here (for guys willing to learn) - deal with honest people, real innovators, real cleaners, past and present, with real reputations of honesty and integrity.

My Jet spray bar 5 and 6 Jets you call it "shear Kit ".My Jet Spray Bar is adjustable. Instead of your design of making it look bulky, mine is stronger, and not bulky looking, unlike yours.
That is improvement

"My Jet spray bar 5 and 6 Jets you call it "shear Kit ".My is adjustable Just like your it look much nicer not bulky like the way you design"

Sorry Tony but you are wrong. What you have copied is PMF's design, which is inferior to the jet adjustment system I have in place with my High Shear Kits.  
You copied PMF because I would not let you copy me.  Read on.

PMF's design rotates the jets on an axis. Mine rotates jets on an ARC. Big difference.
Ever take geometry Tony?
My way let's you rotate the jets without changing the point where the jets hit the carpet which is ideally right behind the glide.
Read what Sam  I think it was said about the PMF Ti wand at the trade show - he was saying the jets hit almost an inch behind the glide.  Awful; not all what modern day wanders are doing who use my shear kits.  My wands have the jets hitting right behind the glide no matter what shear angle you set the jets to. Your design moves the jets away from the glide or sprays onto the glide as you adjust. Bad design.
Read my High Shear kit Page and you see how my ARC brackets are the best way to adjust jets. You simply loosen the two wingnuts and rotate the spraybar. You can do it on the job in seconds, very easily.  PMF's spraybar requires you use a wrench or socket to loosen several nuts; not something you are going to do on the job.
My design was thought out for real cleaners who need adjustability fast - on the job.
No tools needed. Change the shear to high for not so dirty carpets or to low shear and more penetration for nasty carpets. The ARC makes it possible. Your way is from the earliest wands PMF made that let your adjust the jets.  My ARC design is revolutionary. It has only been out l a couple years now yet it is in high demand. Guys don't even realize it's one of the main reasons they love my wands.  Your PMF copy is no improvement over the ARC.  You wanted to copy my design. Remember? But I made you sign a contract stating you would not.  You must have forgotten that.  Be advised you better not.
I'm sure you are telling people your way is better and I'm sure you are convincing some guys too.  After all, ignorant cleaners are all over, especially at trade shoes huh Tony?  
All you gotta do is lie a little and you get their money.
Big reason I dissociated from you.

Let's see what else you can come up with.
Have you done anything that might be a real improvement over the stuff you copy?
Or are you still copying things on the cheap and rushing them to market?

This has become one big pissing contest and everyone is a winner. The one who has the least amount of pee on him...wins!
Some of you need to grow up and knock this childish behavior off. NO ONE BENEFITS!!! And the lounge loses its value.
Calling people name, and vulger ones again a and again. So mature.
Rehashing old issues...move on!
Going on and on and on and on and on till your right. Well if you have to beat a dead horse then you will never be right...get over yourself, your not all high and mighty as you think you are.

Let MO run the board. Don't like it...leave. NO ONE is making you stay here. Give here/take here. Share...don't degrade.

I'm not innocent, but then I'm not calling people every name in the book, cuz my undies are bunched up in a wad.

Matt

You don't say much Matt, but when you do your straight and to the point,

I salute you for it.

"It might be Paul you're referring to. He owns the store. I just provide product and support for it. But you gotta call me to get it. The phone works great at separating the men from the boys.  
Paul sets his own pricing and I set mine. Mine is set at $99, thus the name RC99.  I asked him to charge more for guys who weren't buying it with Cool cuffs but he jacked up the shipping instead.
There is some pretty steep padding built into the shipping. Not something I would do but I can't make him do anything.  Also, store purchasers get the old versions like leaky cuffs, and old style baskets. Only the guys who call me direct get the best I got. Works out great this way. If you're man enough to call me then you get the best of everything I have. Those little men, internet introverts mostly, they get sloppy seconds. That's fair isn't it?"

Whoa. That doesn't seem like you are giving guys the best at all. Sounds like you are openly saying you are selling low quality stuff. Are these guys being TOLD upfront they are buying inferior products?

Weren't you just scolding Tony about selling low quality too?   Seems ironic.

Maybe it's just me taking it that way, from what you have said.

Joe Bristor wrote:"My Jet spray bar 5 and 6 Jets you call it "shear Kit ".My is adjustable Just like your it look much nicer not bulky like the way you design"

Sorry Tony but you are wrong. What you have copied is PMF's design, which is inferior to the jet adjustment system I have in place with my High Shear Kits.  
You copied PMF because I would not let you copy me.  Read on.

PMF's design rotates the jets on an axis. Mine rotates jets on an ARC. Big difference.
Ever take geometry Tony?
My way let's you rotate the jets without changing the point where the jets hit the carpet which is ideally right behind the glide.
Read what Sam  I think it was said about the PMF Ti wand at the trade show - he was saying the jets hit almost an inch behind the glide.  Awful; not all what modern day wanders are doing who use my shear kits.  My wands have the jets hitting right behind the glide no matter what shear angle you set the jets to. Your design moves the jets away from the glide or sprays onto the glide as you adjust. Bad design.
Read my High Shear kit Page and you see how my ARC brackets are the best way to adjust jets. You simply loosen the two wingnuts and rotate the spraybar. You can do it on the job in seconds, very easily.  PMF's spraybar requires you use a wrench or socket to loosen several nuts; not something you are going to do on the job.
My design was thought out for real cleaners who need adjustability fast - on the job.
No tools needed. Change the shear to high for not so dirty carpets or to low shear and more penetration for nasty carpets. The ARC makes it possible. Your way is from the earliest wands PMF made that let your adjust the jets.  My ARC design is revolutionary. It has only been out l a couple years now yet it is in high demand. Guys don't even realize it's one of the main reasons they love my wands.  Your PMF copy is no improvement over the ARC.  You wanted to copy my design. Remember? But I made you sign a contract stating you would not.  You must have forgotten that.  Be advised you better not.
I'm sure you are telling people your way is better and I'm sure you are convincing some guys too.  After all, ignorant cleaners are all over, especially at trade shoes huh Tony?  
All you gotta do is lie a little and you get their money.
Big reason I dissociated from you.

Let's see what else you can come up with.
Have you done anything that might be a real improvement over the stuff you copy?
Or are you still copying things on the cheap and rushing them to market?

I understand the concept of the HSK I think Joe did a lot of work on them, like Rampage would say " YOU CAN ONLY EXTRACT SO MUCH WATER OUT OF THE CARPET " once the fiber is wet it is wet, be it at full shear or low shear it is wet.
I think having the jets strike the carpet just behind the glide to be extracted is very important. The shear kits I have place jets extremely close to any carpet and the plusher it gets the worse, they do cause a little bit of streaking , or corn rows, and even worse with a jet with a little bit of time on it.
Adjustment as to jet height is VERY limited if really any at all due to wand tube being in the way.
In Mos video of him cleaning the carpet in a dining room and he asked for Pepsi It looks like he has the same issue they are not bad but you can see it maybe shows more on a lighter carpet.
Dirty carpet= pre treat, pre scrub, roto wand, OR pre treat, pre scrub and wand 500-600 psi
Lighty Soiled= Pre treat with less amount shorten dwell time, prespray each room as you go, drop cleaning pressure with rotary or wand, I have went as low as 250 psi but most times 300-350
with HSK's I noticed to get the same punch my pressure would have to increase thus using more water, filling waste tank much fast.
I think the spray bar on Tony's wand is very nice and clean, and will do very well may need a little tweak but it will spray any carpet just fine.

This thread continues to be an all-out attack on Joe for some reason...is that how it started?

This industry has been the same sad saga in the 25+ years that I have been involved with it, people introducing a product and a dozen others making a copy of it with some type of "improvement".  Much of the time, that improvement is simply making it cheaper to meet the price sensitive shopper who is just starting out as there are far more of them and they keep coming every day.

We all realize that their are cheaper cleaners in our areas, but the smart cleaners realize that they are not competing in the same market.  The guy on CL cleaning entire homes for $100 is not taking business away from me as my clients are different than his.  It was that way for all of us at one time, I started out that way too.

The guys out there knocking off a design for half the cost is not a threat to the original as they will be valued by a different customer market.  My tool box is full of Snap-on tools, yet Harbor Freight can sell a box full of xyz brand for a tenth of the cost.  Is Snap-On concerned??  Nope.

There is a market for Tony just like Harbor Freight has their loyal following, but it doesn't need to be a source of conflict for the entire industry.  I started cheap, because I was broke, but once things improved, so did my tools.  We all have to start somewhere.

Tony, the one thing that does bother me is using the same names for clearly different tools.  That is not an honest act and not a good way to do business in my view.  If it is not the original design and components, then it  is not the same tool and should not carry the same / similar name.  Call it what it really is....an inexpensive version of the original that is similar in design.

I think Tony should be free to introduce his tools as a paid advertiser on this board like any other advertiser as long is it conforms to an honest participation.  Present your tools with names unique to you and present them on their own merits.  The members here will either support you or not, but it will be with honesty...that is for certain.

Okay, now back to the knife fight....I have to go clean.

milspec6 wrote:This thread continues to be an all-out attack on Joe for some reason...is that how it started?

This industry has been the same sad saga in the 25+ years that I have been involved with it, people introducing a product and a dozen others making a copy of it with some type of "improvement".  Much of the time, that improvement is simply making it cheaper to meet the price sensitive shopper who is just starting out as there are far more of them and they keep coming every day.

We all realize that their are cheaper cleaners in our areas, but the smart cleaners realize that they are not competing in the same market.  The guy on CL cleaning entire homes for $100 is not taking business away from me as my clients are different than his.  It was that way for all of us at one time, I started out that way too.

The guys out there knocking off a design for half the cost is not a threat to the original as they will be valued by a different customer market.  My tool box is full of Snap-on tools, yet Harbor Freight can sell a box full of xyz brand for a tenth of the cost.  Is Snap-On concerned??  Nope.

There is a market for Tony just like Harbor Freight has their loyal following, but it doesn't need to be a source of conflict for the entire industry.  I started cheap, because I was broke, but once things improved, so did my tools.  We all have to start somewhere.

Tony, the one thing that does bother me is using the same names for clearly different tools.  That is not an honest act and not a good way to do business in my view.  If it is not the original design and components, then it  is not the same tool and should not carry the same / similar name.  Call it what it really is....an inexpensive version of the original that is similar in design.

I think Tony should be free to introduce his tools as a paid advertiser on this board like any other advertiser as long is it conforms to an honest participation.  Present your tools with names unique to you and present them on their own merits.  The members here will either support you or not, but it will be with honesty...that is for certain.

Okay, now back to the knife fight....I have to go clean.

Ding, Ding, DING, DONG!!!
WE HAVE A WINNER, Could not have been said better.

"Whoa. That doesn't seem like you are giving guys the best at all. Sounds like you are openly saying you are selling low quality stuff. Are these guys being TOLD upfront they are buying inferior products?

Weren't you just scolding Tony about selling low quality too? Seems ironic.

Maybe it's just me taking it that way, from what you have said."


You answered your own damned self when you said, "Maybe it's just me taking it that way, from what you have said."
It's because you can't bear to admit you lost the best damned tghing you ever had. Lost him for good Fool.
Here you are knocking me, the guy you used to praise, only to dump him for the new guy here, an admitted copy cat artist. Why? Because you James are a cheap skate, struggling window cleaner/carpet cleaner, still apparently so ashamed of his own name that he won't dare mention here in public. Pathetic.
How's your copy cat boy holding up here in the debate?

No, the store is not selling inferior stuff. You came up with that word. I just fill it with the stuff of last production runs, like I said. Like Cool Cuffs that were made prior to the Perfect Seal. Something you wouldn't know about because of your innate cheapness. Ironic, you left a board claiming to be better than them but you still can't mention your own name.
If you actually read what I wrote with an open mind you would have read me saying I give those who call me my best.
Yes, store orders get less. Absolutely. I set it up that way and announce it every chance I get. So anybody who still uses the store knows exactly what to expect. And those who don't use it do too.

"I understand the concept of the HSK I think Joe did a lot of work on them, like Rampage would say " YOU CAN ONLY EXTRACT SO MUCH WATER OUT OF THE CARPET " once the fiber is wet it is wet, be it at full shear or low shear it is wet.
Rampage also sharpens his glides regularly and changes them often.
I think having the jets strike the carpet just behind the glide to be extracted is very important. The shear kits I have place jets extremely close to any carpet and the plusher it gets the worse, they do cause a little bit of streaking , or corn rows, and even worse with a jet with a little bit of time on it. You have my Westpak and Pro chem Quad High Shear Kits, neither are the best wands to install HSKs on because the fact that the main tube of these wands enters the back of the head so low that you can't rotate the spraybar much at all, thus you are always set at high shear. But the jets are the right distance from the carpet. Yes, thick pile, especially floppy friese etc could distort from jet impact, just do an extra dry stroke. The VT wands I make and for which the High Shear Kit excels, does not have the problem of the WP or PCQ.
Adjustment as to jet height is VERY limited if really any at all due to wand tube being in the way All my High Shear kits are set to be the right height above the carpet, Again, your problem is that you have limited your experience to the Westpak and PCQ wands. Let me guess what will happen next. Tom will get a Tony Dang wand and proclaim it better than mine since the jets are higher off the carpet. Am I right? Dude I read you like a book. Get yourself a genuine VT, not a Tony Dang VT knockoff and you will see. Til then you are not comparing apples to apples. Til then, we only have about 600 guys who own and love their Jobilt VT wands to go by. But I'll take that any day over the say of people like you and yur new friend Tony Dang.
In Mo's video of him cleaning the carpet in a dining room and he asked for Pepsi It looks like he has the same issue they are not bad but you can see it maybe shows more on a lighter carpet. I'm guessing Mo needs new jets. It's a common mistake... guys waiting too long. A good rule of thumb is once a year for full-time cleaning. Mo's had the VT14 I made him for like 3 years now, and without checking, I'm guessing he still hasn't changed his jets. But he does a lot of vlm work based on all the SOE he buys so where would a year's worth of cleaning come in? Beats me. But hey Freemind, for those who call in, I'll not only look up the age of their jets, but I will give them my Stubby Check Valves and Jet Screens already installed, FOR FREE with the purchase of new jets. Just not for you. You get Nothing for being the cheap skate you are.
Dirty carpet= pre treat, pre scrub, roto wand, OR pre treat, pre scrub and wand 500-600 psi
Lighty Soiled= Pre treat with less amount shorten dwell time, prespray each room as you go, drop cleaning pressure with rotary or wand, I have went as low as 250 psi but most times 300-350
with HSK's I noticed to get the same punch my pressure would have to increase thus using more water, filling waste tank much fast. Change the focus of your jets to a 1/8" farther back from the glide. Or get a Tony Dang wand for free and keep knocking the wand he knocked off. The rest of you who are Wanders' customers just pick up the phone for some fast, honest service. You'll actually hear me, a native American, on the other end of the line, not some Vietnames dude who can barely converse in English, one who moved here from Vietnam to knock me off.

I think the spray bar on Tony's wand is very nice and clean, and will do very well may need a little tweak but it will spray any carpet just fine." Of course you would say that.

"We all realize that their are cheaper cleaners in our areas, but the smart cleaners realize that they are not competing in the same market.  The guy on CL cleaning entire homes for $100 is not taking business away from me as my clients are different than his.  It was that way for all of us at one time, I started out that way too"

What gets me with Freemind is that he knows I know wands yet he went for a Tony Dang wand without even checking with me first. That's why I called him late that night, to see if he really had done that. He tried to make me out a bad guy in front of you guys for calling him late, yet failed to tell you the whole story - that he had just finished posting and was wide awake when I called. He said hello Joe right off so it certainly was no surprise.  The way he attacked me later confirmed what I had learned from that last phone conversation - there is no Snap On Tools in this guy's vocabulary.
But I will give him one thing - the distinction of being the first to say he fired me. I loved that, especially that he underlined it.
I wish anybody and everybody who feels that way would speak up and say it loud & clear so I may turn my focus to the people appreciate me and my exemplary product & service.  
Cheapskates are all of the same mentality, buy cheap, hoping a miracle will happen. Yea right.. maybe in the form of meteors pummeling the earth. Sorry the same guys cleaning whole houses for $100 are doing it $100 Tony Dang wands.
The agreement he & I had would be that he would keep that market and I would take the other market - guys who want to do it right. But look at Tony now, sneaking in here with knockoff VTs, with honest Tom at his side, both courtesy of Mauricio. Mo.
Thanks Mo.
Hey Mo, have you paid your bill yet? You're two months behind stud with no response to my email about the invoices I sent.
Must be too busy taking calls from Freemind, Tony Dang and Tom Conway huh?