Well I bit the bullet and ordered a Zipper Wand

not to change the subject but is that what they cost?

Devon07 wrote:not to change the subject but is that what they cost?

http://www.zipperwand.com/

$2095 currently at this time (after a price increase) for the 15" and they are going up again I believe $200

The 13 inch is $1995 currently.

I do not know what kind of show special Erik will have this year in Vegas....

Last year, he gave away a free Zipper at the show...in Florida, he gave away an $800 coupon towards a Zipper....

Supply and demand, and also his parts and machining costs increased....

Can't speak for him...but just sharing what I know of at this time.

Mark Saiger

Thanks....I dont see commercial here to even try that thing. Glad it works for you.

So I have been using the zipper on my empties just trying it out and getting used to it, you have to keep the handle at the hips or in that area,when you do it goes along very smoothly.
I know it is not the best for resi, and I bought it for comm, I will be using it on the sports bar this weekend.
So far I really like it, my friend brought over his CX and we cleaned with both on a good sized empty I had, I think the CX did a better job due to the spinner action really, but I still like the way you can clean going forward and back.
I also did not have the Zip set at the right height way to high so dry pass had to be done.
Now I did adjust the zip on the next job and the recovery was very very good.
The think I like about the Zip over the CX is you can go into a area cleaning where as the CX you have to enter and clean out of area.
The honest thing is I have been working on the Devpro wand and making improvements to it and in resi I would say my DP is better, my recovery from it was shocking as I went wet,wet and ONE dry pass across the living room. I then hooked up Zip and went over it...I was very shocked that the zip only pulled a very small amount of water out of the carpet after only doing one fast dry pass with my Devpro, I don't know if it was due to my modified glide or what...just really made me proud of the results.
I am very happy with my purchase of the Zip and do not regret it at all, I can post a pick of my paid invoice if you want me too, I did get a little break as I did send Erik a new model of Dev we have been working on but my total was around 1650-1700.00.
I don't regret buying it, and I think it is a very easy tool to use, the handle hasn't bothered me at all, I was worried it was going to be more awkward than it turned out to be.
[img][/img]

Thanks Mark, I guess you proved me wrong?

In everyone else's eyes at least right, but I remember what the xipper cost back then, before eric was desperate to dump them, wasn't it more like $2500? Rather than 1,625.00?

You're good man........there's really no point in me going on, I'm sure most would agree.

I could really care less, just tiring to be the voice of reason, lookin' out for the unknowing. If I'm wrong then 'my bad' as they say.

Found it....

Second Zipper....


Hope this helps put some validity to why I post....not about money or shilling for someone....just sharing....good night





Mark Saiger
www.saigers.com

Wow we haven't had a heated debate like this in a while.  The lounge is a place were cleaners connect, learn, and prosper.  It can get heated, we can disagree, we can give our opinions but ultimately it up to the individual to take all of the information gathered and do what they want with it.

Mark I believe that you really love your zipper. The problem is that the majority of your participation on this forum is about the Zipper and that maybe why some guys wonder about your intentions.

From the information that I have gathered about the zipper and most would agree, is that the general consensus on the Zipper is that it is well made, it's speeds up production and it is a commercial cleaning tool. So for me personally I don't need one cause I don't do a lot of commercial and when I do I use my Orbot

The loaner that was started in 2013 and guys started giving their reviews in Jan 2014 and some participants pointed out some ways of improving the tool.

I recall Rob experiencing back aches. Later the handle became adjustable and they even came out with a completely new ergonomic style handle. I maybe forgetting some other things.

That's why I like doing loaners. No tool is for everyone but if you get a chance to use it for a couple of weeks you can make up your own mind.

One more thing. I don't make money on this forum

I went back to the thread and copied and pasted the reviews I found from the participants

Re: Zipper Floater/Loaner

 by muscletruck on Thu 30 Jan 2014 - 12:40
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I guess I posted on wrong thread I'm knew to this lounge so bear with me I've been cleaning carpets for over 30 years I tried 13 inch zipper just wasn't for me very nice looking unit well built my opinion is for a lot of wide open commercial carpet it would have its place I've used a titanium all my life just to use to it the zipper skipped around on barber carpet the handle just to long in residential situations but once again very well built unit and for some guys it will be a good fit

Re: Zipper Floater/Loaner

 by Bill Soukoreff on Fri 24 Jan 2014 - 0:29
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Here is my report that I already sent to Joe. Pretty much the same, but with a few updates as I use the Zipper more and more. Thanks Eric, Joe and Mo (Cleaners Lounge) for the putting together the loaner program!

A Serious High Production Tool

We put the Zipper up against the Cimex in cleaning over 20,000 sq/ft of carpet.

Twice a year we clean a 20,000 ft conference hall. Normally we Cimex the main auditorium of 10,800 sq/ft and steam clean the front lobby and entrance ways of 7500 sq/ft and also some additional rooms adding up to another 2500 sq/ft. Last time we had three Cimex’s cleaning the main auditorium, some other rooms, and two truck mounts steam cleaning the lobby. It took 4 hours and about 4 to 6 hours to dry.

This time I decided to use the Zipper wand and extract all the carpet on my own. Actually, my wife helped out and we took turns using the Zipper. We pre-sprayed and then extracted with the Zipper. We average 2,700 sq/ft the first day finishing the main auditorium in just under 4 hours. The carpets where we started were bone dry when we left. We used the paper towel kneeling test, and picked up zero moisture. This was really good news, as the auditorium was scheduled to used that evening at 6:00pm.

The next morning we cleaned the lobby and other areas. This time we deliberately slowed down a little as we were dealing with entrance way dirt, grime, food and coffee spills. We completed the job again in 4 hours averaging 2500 sq/ft per hours. The carpets looked fantastic. The waste water was blacker and thicker then I have ever seen before and my 5 gallon filter box bags were filled with a surpassing amount gunk and yes, hair, even though this building has an excellent vacuuming regime. The Zipper cleans deeper then any other cleaning wand, period.

Conclusions Using the Zipper on Commercial Carpets

First, cleaning over 20,000 sq/ft with the Zipper put very little strain on the body. More then anything we simply felt like we walked allot! None of the usual strain and pain in the shoulder, neck, arms and wrist. I will be buying a Zipper for this reason alone. As Eric says, “your body is not stressed!” The speed of which you can move with the Zipper is nothing short of amazing. It actually drew a crowd of observers! Most thought it had to be motorized and self-propelled. You will feel new muscles in your back! But that is normal for muscles you don’t use and need to be strengthened.

Second, it out cleaned and out dried the Cimex while maintaining an even faster speed. The question begs to asked: “Why Cimex (Encap) when you can flush and really clean the carpets at faster rate and achieve the same if not even faster dry times?”

I think the real beauty of hot water extracting with the Zipper is often overlooked on the cleaning forums. This is a niche tool that gives competent owner operators a way of separating themselves from the pack now that the Cimex and encaping has become mainstream and the budget hack-style over wetting hot water extraction is the other alternative. With careful marketing, you can have your own specialty commercial market and take the high road while doing it.

More and more people are concerned about indoor air quality and VOC’s. Speed and dry times are still important for busy commercial centres. The Zipper can deliver on all these concerns. When we used the Cimex on this facility the last time, we used 6 gallons of a peroxide based encap that has a startling high usage rate of 10 oz per gallon of water. Granted this is a high number (normally about three gallons would do it) but that was the only way we could get good results on the numerous food and coffee spill and an even appearance. In Canada we pay a premium for cleaning products and so that job cost us about $350 including pads. With the Zipper we used a total of 4 cups of a VOC free pre-conditioner with a soft water rinse and about $60 in fuel to run the truck mount. So that comes to a whooping total of $80. Now you might we able to get by with cheaper encap solutions and ones that require less dilution, but it still will cost you more then flushing the carpets clean with the Zipper. The way the cleaning head of the unit captures the heat along with the higher PSI and flow equates to high performance.  

Of course, you also have to figure in the cost of using the truck mount versus the Cimex, but the benefits of cleaning with the Zipper are more than worth it. Instead of leaving 3-6 gallons of cleaning chemicals in the carpet, we left a minute amount. The manager of the facility and his wife both “felt” the carpets were cleaner and they also “feel better about having a facility that is more friendly to people who suffer from chemical sensitivities and asthma”.  They confessed they never really were sold on the whole encap theory and stressed out about vacuuming. They never really “felt” the carpets were clean. In fact, it gave them the creeps to think about it! These comments are subjective, true, but it really does not matter, as they are sold on this method as the best way to care for the carpets of their facility. Those are the customers we can attract with high performance cleaning with the Zipper.

Zipper and Residential

What about using the Zipper on residential?  Remember when you first used a hole glide and angled jets and you were shocked and excited how when you went back to check the first room you cleaned and it was almost dry? I am now having the same experience again. The carpets dry that much faster again with the Zipper. Extraordinary dry times and really, really deep cleaning. The Zipper will dry faster then any other low moisture system that used water. The flushing power is fantastic and relegates additional agitation to only the very worst of jobs. Honestly, I do not get really trashed jobs, so for me I can safely say “good by” to additional agitation or the use of rotaries. I dislike using rotaries on residential. My first job with the Zipper was a very long hose run into a cold (winter) basement with a white cut pile nylon that was pretty bad by my standard. The Zipper cut through it all beautifully with no extra effort or harsh cleaning chemicals. I had the PSI turned up to 550/600 on this one and expected the carpet to be wetter then normal, but when I kneeled down, to my surpass it was barely damp.

Manoeuvrability. I had the 15” Zipper on loan and it manages surprisingly well in tight areas. However, I would be interested in seeing how much more agile the 13” Zipper would be for residential. I love using a 14” wand, but I think the 13” Zipper would be a better choice for residential use. Until you use the Zipper and realize how you can clean back and forth with no need for dry strokes or careful overlapping, the speed difference between the 13” and the 15” would be nil in my estimation. In fact the 15” might be slower due to being less agile and harder to push on some carpets. Update, I bought the 13” Zipper and it is more agile in residential. So far in two months, I have only had to use the wand once for a really tight job and once for a thin area rug.

Area rugs. The Zipper on area rugs is a real treat. Little to no over spray and a much more deeper clean with no fears of over wetting on hardwood. Gilded wands are great on area rugs but the Zipper is much, much better. On thinner rugs it won’t work as it just sucks too hard and will grab the edge of the carpet. It removes tons of gunk out of wool rugs.

Other ramblings. One other thing I like was how quiet the Zipper is, and it really makes a difference, I feel more relaxed while using it and now dread my noisy stair tool. I raised the rear wheels about an 1/4” and that seemed perfect for most padded carpets. On a high pile cut nylon, you can raise it even more. Play around with the height settings.

Negatives. No tool is perfect. The Zipper is not a catch all tool. In residential, it is not a time saver like commercial, and will take a little longer then a wand, but the results are worth it and its still faster then a precrub/wand combo or a rotary. It does take time to get use to it, and learn not fight it, but instead maximize it’s strengths. You will either love it or hate it. You need to retrain your brain. You will know what I mean when you use it. As mentioned it removes a ton of gunk. That gunk and hair will build up quickly on the front slotted glide. At the end of each job, just run the hose across the glide creating a seal with your fingers and remove the hair. That way you will never have to use the tweezers that Eric supplies with the unit! Also, while its true you can jet the Zipper to match your TM, I still think you want a decent sized blower, and you will use lots of water. But that's why it cleans so well.

Summery. I hope Eric sells hundreds of this amazing piece of engineering and design. I invited a 35 year carpet cleaning veteran who has a very successful business  to try it out on that large commercial job. We always get together to test new products. Nothing that has come out in the last few years has impressed either of us, despite the hype. These experiences have left us both jaded. It took me awhile to convince my friend to come and try the Zipper. After using it for only ten minutes he turned to me and said, “Why has no one thought of this before now? I have been cleaning for 35 years, and have never been left so impressed by a single piece of equipment.” Needless to say, we both purchased the Zipper!

Dustin has some really great videos of the Zipper in action. Lets see them Dustin!

Re: Zipper Floater/Loaner

 by milspec6 on Sat 25 Jan 2014 - 21:57
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(I was hoping that this floater prgram might continue once things calmed down, but I guess it is done.  Reviews are being posted, so I guess I will include mine).

I was one of those cleaners that really wanted to like this wand from the start.  As soon as I took it out of the box, I was impressed with the appearence and apparent quality of the wand.  My hopes were high.

I tried it on a store front entry at a large grocery store chain to get some trigger time prior to larger jobs.  The manager was intrigued by the Zip and wanted to see it in action.  Unfortunately, it sufferred from a bad case of chatter and I looked like the father of that little leaguer who is picking his nose on third base, but that was my fault as I didn't set the height properly.

Once the height was adjusted a few times to find the right one, I was off to the races.  It cleaned well without needing a second pass and it was giving me good dry times, but I was not happy with the location of the solution hose as it attached to the handle right in the middle allowing the hot hose to hang down near my leg.  No big deal, just strapped it to the vac hose and finished the job.  

A couple of nights later was the marathon job that is basically 10-12 hours of straight wanding.  I normally did this contract with an RX-20 for the really bad areas and the PMF Ti wand for everyting else.  This night, I went with the Zip in hopes of getting faster production times.  (I really wanted to love this wand)

I showed the Zipper to a fellow cleaner that helps me on this job and he took about 3 passes with it, handed it back saying that is skipped too much and used too much water for his small recovery tank.  That was it, 3 passes and his mind was settled, but mine wasn't and I was still excited about this tool.

I had to make another adjustment to the height to rid the chatter from the store front job setting, but then I started making passes.  Again, it cleaned with single passes and it felt smooth with just the location of that solution hose to annoy me.  I really wanted a swivel on the end of the handle like many of the tile spinners have, but again, I strapped it to the vac hose for now.

After the first 2 hours, it was going well until the handle loosened up.  I had to fetch an allen wrench off the truck to tighten things back up, then it was back to work as I started to transition to another part of the building.

When I moved to the other part of the building, the chatter was back and I had to adjust the height for this next span of carpet.  Once it was better, I continued the chore.  It was here that I really started to appreciate the sight tube location.  It was giving me great feedback on the effectiveness of water recovery and I found myslef going back over areas hunting for water pockets in the little dips in the floor.  My production rate was down due to the water hunts, but my effective dry rate was impressive.

After 7 hours on the job, my middle back started to really tighten up.  I had the same problem cleaning with the Steamin Demon when I started out years ago.  With both tools, you tend to clean like you were mowing the lawn.  You hold your arms up high as you push ahead and drop the arms down low as you walk it backwards.  With the arms down low in a relaxed position, I would end up arching my back slightly (not even aware of it at the time) on the backstrokes.  It may just be my ape arms (I was concerned about that when Erik presented this tool) that is the problem, but it was becoming a concern as the night wore on.

Into hour number 8, I needed to tighten up the handle one more time.  If I had some lock-tite on the truck, I would have settled that issue, but I didn't.  It was a minor issue to me.  What wasn't a minor issue to me was that I started to have a qc start to drip at the hose connection.  Those drips would hit me in the thigh due to the location of the connection and that was a problem.  I ended up taking a break to change out the faulty qc and to stretch my back.  Looking back, I think I may have caused that leak by stressing the hose having it strapped out of the way...that swivel would have been nice, I said again.

Over the final hours of this job, I was happy with the way that the wand fit into tight spots and under railings...I didn't think that it would at first.  It continued to clean with single passes and with good dryness with just a sore back as a problem.  All in all, I went through approx. 265 gallons of water...not a small sum, but I have a 210 gallon waste tank and apo, so it wasn't a problem for me, but I would consider it if you are running smaller or else change out the jets.

So, what did I think in the end.  I think that this is a well built tool that fits somewhere between the best commercial wands (PMF Ti) and a good rotary extractor like the RX-20, which I think still digs deeper.  Back when the zipper  was invented, I can see how it would have probably been the best wand out there and just a little shy of the RX-20 in performance, but I think those Titanium wands have closed the gap to the point that the Zipper isn't as dominating now. I think it falls into a niche now for those that need a different motion due to physical deficiencies over the years and can't use a traditional wand any more.

Still, the Zipper is a solid tool that would be a great fit for the right person...I wasn't one of them.  The location of the solution hose connection, the chatter adjustments, the repeated loosening of the handle, and my sore middle back were all detractors for me and enough that I would not purchase one....especially at a price that rivals a good rotary extractor. Now if I had a shoulder or elbow issue....that might be a different story and probably where this tool should be targeted.


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Re: Zipper Floater/Loaner

 by CleanTech on Sat 1 Feb 2014 - 4:42
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lol been busy guys... anyway here is some info

15"
Like everyone else once it arrived I was impressed with its (current) build quality. I think its the perfect weight for cleaning. Not too light.

Residential:
I dont really care for wands so using it in residential setting was easy to get the hang of. I found it much easier on the body over all compared to a wand.  Dry times are much faster as well.  No problems for me cleaning in tight areas and even getting into closets.  Super small packed rooms had the same problem as regular wands regardless of width.
It was the first thing I brought into the house and I would say 50% of my clients commented on it.  
The tool sure can lay flat allowing you to really get under furniture and beds! huge plus.  
It just plain out cleans the wand.

Commercial:
here is where it gets interesting.
I used it on quarterly places where I normally cimex or OP
Easily cut that time in half with better results.  (and I love vlm)
Did a shoe store that has tons and tons of isles and cross isles.  I would never think of using a rotary extractor in that situation but with the zipp being able to clean going down the isle, reach the end and walk to the tool back to the start of the next isle was GREAT.
The shoe store would take 3.5 hours with cimex, with zip 1.2 hours.....

I did have 2 stores that had terrible chatter(thankfully just in certain areas) which I could not fix. Either changing the tool height or cleaning from a different direction.
For No agitation it sure can clean amazing. Does it out clean rotary... I would have to say an honest no.
If you pre-scrub then probably but in my case where I already have a rotary extractor why would I do a 2 steps process and waste time?
Which is easier on the body? When you watch my videos take notice of who is moving around more.  On the versus video I (running rx) basically do a little bit of movement and let the machine heal and toe it. Where as my dad running the zip is doing allot more moving around.  

I would like to see a much longer sight tube window personally.

I truly loved the tool, price point is definitely in a nicer area now.  I want one, just not sure where this tools falls with all the other gear I  want....

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:

Davey Cracker wrote:This started as an honest forum, but I think it's been corrupted by the almighty dollar.

Prove me wrong?

And I say your wrong.
Mo  has done his best to keep this board simple and straight, don't let one bad loaner  sour your time on here.

Thanks Matt I appreciated that.  Dave and I spoke about that comment and it was a mis statement, were all good.

Misunderstanding.....

No harm meant to the forum or to Mo.  

Sorry for my lack of better explanation, and the confusion caused.

I took the comment as the posts people make rather than you personally Mo....this forum seems to have mostly honest, sincere feedback on products....Mo is honest as far as I can tell! I think its the comments that are tilted at times. Like Mo says...someone may like one thing and someone else may hate it....and thats how it goes BUT if someone is found to be shilling.....they should be stoned!



When I was getting my equipment I got great info here and nothing was odd...except for the rc99 thing....and that happend to be a sweet tool.



Now....everyone put your shirts back on and mind your Ps and Qs.



Speaking of Ps and Qs....does anyone know what that means? I heard it came from back in the day when sailors would come in from sea and get drunk.....then want to fight....the bar tender would tell them to mind thier Ps and Qs meaning Pints and Quarts.

"Prespray and Quick Connects" Devon.

You can sure tell that we are at the back end of the summer season as we are all getting cranky...I guess I kind of started this mess.

The thing is that it isn't about the Zipper, it is about the way this industry has changed with the internet and those willing to throw their grandmother under the bus for a dollar....I'm sure you could all name a few right off the top of your head after being in the business for just a couple of years.

Maybe I am just always a skeptic, but when I read reviews that are void of any negatives, my danger sense kicks in.  There is no perfect anything out there and when you have to buy it unseen due to distribution, you need the full story.

I don't expect the full story from the distributors or manufacturers (Sapphire was an exception when I talked to the rep about their direct drive 1200 vs butler...honest company rep), but I do expect it from the cleaners unless they were getting paid to move merchandise.  Let's face it, we are generally a very fickle group that are tough to please...I would expect reviews would follow suit.

I guess I am still pissed off over that amplifier and it is affecting my opinions of some people in this industry.  For the record, none of "those" people are on this forum nor have taken part in this discussion.

My ranting is done, it doesn't help the situation.  I'm done kicking up dust.....back to cleaning.

lol....

We just hate getting screwed! If it happens to me, You will find yourself on a bad end of a bad stick. Im way to stubborn to let it go AND I have enough time to make that person my full time job. Trust me! Im the best guy in the world until you screw me a family member or a friend.

I never doubted Mark....but when I went to look at a video he mentioned once I went to Youtube because I cant watch them in here....I was surprised he had so many on the Zipper....honestly, I thought he had something to do with the company and never thought anymore about it...A couple guys in here do clean and have products! Im not saying anything at all.....I just though it was a thing like when sccc told me about the rc99....and he makes a different one...still was odd to me but I think he was sincere about his reason. so no biggie.

I think we are with a good group here.....but that Davey guy

I really Value the help Ive recieved from Rob, Davey, DP and others through comments.

Devon07 wrote:....Mo is honest as far as I can tell!

I think your honest too Devon... as far as I can tell!

ACpower1 wrote:I felt that the s/o drums were boosted heavily on the realcleaners,    by a few members...  made me feel like it was the end all be all green pre spray.       I still have a ton of it sitting in a drum that I paid about 1100 for.    

 Dang AC use that stuff up. Actually I never used the S/O I always pre sprayed the S/O/E and it worked good.

Davey Cracker wrote:Misunderstanding.....

No harm meant to the forum or to Mo.  

Sorry for my lack of better explanation, and the confusion caused.

Whew. Now let's get back to sharing!

That would be nice huh.

Cumbaya my lord, cumbaya

I want to see Marks and Toms bank statements with account numbers as proof of payment

Okay, so Mark has receipts, but what about a birth certificate? I think he might be Canadian

Rob....LMAO!

Mo...that did sound weird huh?...I know you're a good guy!....but honestly...with the computer between us you never know....you might be an ISIS dude or Serial Killer....thats the problem with the internet! you can look good and be bad...or look bad and be good. I mean honestly....maybe Im not a guy! do you know? Maybe im your neighbor!? maybe Im Davey in second personality!? Maybe Im Mo acting like Devon talking to Mo.

I had to stop I was getting confused.

It's the Internets fault, I'm bad online, in person, and everywhere else..........except to my customers, because they pay my bills.

Receipts are receipts, right.

Devon how can I trust you with crazy looking avatar? Rob is the only one with the balls to actually put a picture of his mug as his avatar.

Actually Dave your personality is different in person that it is on line. Your meaner in person

Mo wrote:Devon how can I trust you with crazy looking avatar? Rob is the only one with the balls to actually put a picture of his mug as his avatar.

Actually Dave your personality is different in person that it is on line. Your meaner in person

Now I have a ball too lol, I changed it!!

Don't let that cute lil girl fool you, I'm still an evil bastard!

I do have to admit, that pic is several yrs old, and I'm now much older, meaner, and grayer/hairer.

Lol...

All good guys