Thermal Relief Valves?....

I'm looking to add one to my Cat Pump, and like the idea of it popping off at about 145 deg.
But which type should I be looking for?

http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.689.1018.2840

Well, with a little searching, I guess I found what Cat recommends. lol...... But still open to any input on this?

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1018.2840/6535

You can add this one to one of your inlet ports in your pump or you can get a 3/8 one and put it in your bypass loop. This style resets very well and are very repeatable. Most thermal valves that look like this one are good and pop off at 140-145 degrees. Some pop off at 190 though just be sure to double check. This one is 140 degree. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Male-Thread-140-F-Thermal-Relief-Valve-General-Pump-100558-/400673649608?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4a02b3c8

The cat model I like the best. Just be carefull not to screw the hose barb too far in as it will stop the valve From working properly.
So why do you want a thermal dump valve.

What does it do?

ACE Services wrote:The cat model I like the best. Just be carefull not to screw the hose barb too far in as it will stop the valve From working properly.
So why do you want a thermal dump valve.

Just to prolong the life of seals and keep pump from over heating when it's not circulating water.

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:What does it do?

Dumping hot water once it gets to certain temperature to protect the pump seals from blowing due to high water temperature.

dp1 wrote:

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:What does it do?

Dumping hot water once it gets to certain temperature to protect the pump seals from blowing due to high water temperature.

Put a bypass valve on your tools instead and never let the water stop flowing for more than 2-3 minutes at a time and you will never have a problem with the pump temperature.

Ok just wanted to be sure you weren't using it as a pressure relief. I'm guessing you don't use a water Bx on the unit.

Eddie

Yes, my TM has a 2 gal. water box.

milspec6 wrote:

dp1 wrote:

Matt; My carpet cleaner wrote:What does it do?

Dumping hot water once it gets to certain temperature to protect the pump seals from blowing due to high water temperature.

Put a bypass valve on your tools instead and never let the water stop flowing for more than 2-3 minutes at a time and you will never have a problem with the pump temperature.

I get what you're saying, but I kind of want to have that dummy proof protection just in case.

I get Dumb like that sometimes The last time I did, I got busy in a long conversation with a customer, and the seals melted to the plungers........Cost me 1.5 hrs down time replacing them on the job, and about $80 in parts.

So is it different than the sensor that dumps hot water in the waste tank, when the water gets to hot??
Cuz 140' or even 190'-- opening up to bypass isn't that hot.
OR those two different sensor bypasses??
No big explanation needed, but clarification will do.

If you are using a water Bx on the unit. Most water Bx have the thermal valve on them with the line going to the waste tank so when the valve opened the vac would suck the water out of the water Bx which allowed cold water to enter water Bx dropping the temp cooling and closing the valve. Controlling water temp going to pump.

Actually sounds like a good system, all except for the fact if the pump isn't flowing water it isn't going to be pulling in the cool water from the box................unless I'm missing something?

Davey Cracker wrote:Actually sounds like a good system, all except for the fact if the pump isn't flowing water it isn't going to be pulling in the cool water from the box................unless I'm missing something?

Depends on your system, I believe Prochem units are circulating the water within the unit itself ? I could be wrong though.
Even if yours are not, when the water in the water box gets too hot, it may not do anything to your pump if you are done cleaning, but if you're not done cleaning, when you pull the trigger on your wand guess where the hot water end up ?
Plus you just said it yourself it happened to you when you were talking to your custy ? Lol.

^On my system the water box isn't part of the by-pass system, so it's not pulling in the water from the box until there is a demand for water (keying the wand)......hope that makes sense?

Maybe I should make the water box part of the by-pass loop?

Well if it isn't part of the bypass of the whole plumbing then I suppose the water in there won't get as hot then ? But then again you said it melted your seals once, have you checked how hot the temperature is in that water box ? If it's over 140 without the bypass then you should get the heat relief valve regardless if you are making the water box as part of the bypass system or not, just to be safe than sorry.

Ohhh, I think I'm getting it. If so, then the engineering is off...in my opinion?
My first tm was an EZ. Nick had the water box always cold. After the pump was Chem injection on its way to the HX. The pump had a 5-6' hose that was the pressure bypass(when trigger was not engaged). I don't know if the water bypassing get heated up in that loop or not.
So I'm not sure why others have hot water bypassing to the water box? I could see why if the unit just didn't get the water very hot in the first place. And this was a way of having the incoming water warmer going into the heat system.
Please understand that I'm no engineering guru. You probably guessed that by my continuing questions.

^Maybe this will help explain it?.......quoted from a site that sells them............

"Thermal Relief Valve

A MUST for any pump that might ever be left in bypass mode (unloading) for more than 15 seconds! Protects the pump from overheating caused by recirculating water.

Features:

Installs in bypass line
Automotive style wax element
Automatically resets at cool down to 115° +F



No adjustment required
1/8" FPT side discharge
125 PSI inlet pressure
2.5 GPM flow"

15 seconds might be pushing it tho on most systems?.......but I know on mine it only takes a min or two for a noticeable rise in pump temp.

Also what Cat Pumps explanation on it is....

"Thermo Valve
3/8" MPT x 1/8" FPT, Max 145 Deg. F
Protect pumps from premature failure of seals, packing and cups by eliminating heat build-up in closed loop by-pass systems. Automatically seats during unloader / regulator pressure spikes to prevent fluid bleed.

Valves open when temperature exceeds temperatures shown. Provides high temperature protection without interruption in flow. Compatible with systems using either unloader or regulator valves."

Basically, it is just an automotive thermostat placed in the bypass hose. I certainly can see the value in that, but I think they are really stretching things with the "15 second" rule.

When I purchased my butler, they told me to not let the tools idle without flow for more than 2-3 minutes to prevent the pump from heat damage.

For most jobs, I have never had a problem keeping the tools active. After-all, they only make you money when they are running and the more efficient you can be at keeping the tools moving, the more money you can make.

The one exception for me is during the winter where I have to get the water flowing to prevent freezing and I still need to stage the rooms for cleaning. In those cases, these bypass valves have been very handy if you have a large enough waste tank.

I'm not even plannings to have it dump into the waste tank, but rather just run the hose out of the van...........I see no reason to needlessly fill the tank?

Davey Cracker wrote:I'm not even plannings to have it dump into the waste tank, but rather just run the hose out of the van...........I see no reason to needlessly fill the tank?

Do they allow that out in Kalifornia these days?

When I was stationed out there, it was considered a haz-mat spill to allow even rusty water to hit the ground. We were working on field shower and decon units....how the hell do you avoid that? The answer: We weren't allowed to run or repair these machines unless we had a full collection pit created and drummed the rusty water.

Rob, Yes it is allowed to dump clean water. And wow that's crazy experience, I thought military would have some leniency in doing some maintenance and such.
Dave, I have a bleeder hose set up ( from the factory ) but the purpose is to make solution, detergents, etc. And although my bypass is not routed to the fresh water tank, the water in my water box gets hot and in one of my machine my thermal relief valve is not working and I have been lagging in replacing it, on winter days almost no problem but on summer days I usually open that bleeder valve and let the water flows out, it doesn't have to be full blast flow with 2 guys on the truck but if I work by myself I have to open the valve slightly more, so yes that method will work also, the only bad scenario is if the customer is a water conservation freak, which thank God I haven't had one :-)

When that bleeder hose opens, don't you lose your pressure?

My butler has a courtesy hose that allows me to bleed hot water out of the pump to fill jugs, but when it opens, the pump dumps its pressure as well.