Krud Kutter working well in place of ammonia for pet spots

A while back someone recommended Krud Kutter for really soiled micro fiber, or was it theater seats? Any way I picked some up and have using it to charge my prespray on tough jobs. Works really good on tile. The other day I on a whim I checked the ph with some ph paper. It turned as blue as the scale would go- very alkaline. Bottle says biodegradable and safe with no residue. That got the wheels turning. How would it work in place of ammonia in a two part spraying system for pet spots? ( like Joe's white knight sprayer). Turns out it worked great. Less noxious than ammonia, no smell, no residue. win, win, win. Theoretically I should be able to spray spots and no extract if needed.

I have recently added KK to my core list of chems.

It continues to impress me in it's ability to cut through oils, and as a general spotter.

I'm not sure I would go as far as to not not rinse it. Although I believe it lists carpets as one of it's uses, it is not a industry specific product, so I would question the context of their statement of "no residue".

Is their statement of "no residue" at a certain dilution??? or straight??

Why chance it??

I see no reason to skip an extra ten seconds for a quick rinse and play it safe.

Anything blue on the pH scale is gonna be in the amine or silicate groups, known for great cleaning, harsh cleaning, and low residue, but nothing is really 'no' residue is it?  
Are we back to the old encap vs hwe debates?

Test KK or any other high pH cleaner on the dirty back window of your van... mist, agitate and wait. Is it squeaky clean upon drying? Probably not.
With hwe you can flush & suck it off. But is it residue free? Probably not.
With encap cleaning, we're definitely wiping with a rag and/or using subsequent vacuuming as our wand; and we're actually leaving a very low residue result. FU if you don't believe it. LOL.
None of these 'industry specific' lol 'approved' cleaning methods are 'no' residue. Are they?

With window cleaning, clean/rinse with Di water (the gentlest of cleaning), the water literally acting as a magnet; or wipe with a rag? Residue free? YES! as close as I've ever seen.
Perhaps we should be forced to work as window cleaners' helper before qualifying as a carpet cleaner?

After years of high pH type cleaning, I gradually shifted to the likes of S/O chemistry for my cleaning.
Recall, S/O tends to release soils & oils by softening the water, gently nudging soils (negative ions) away from the surface their attached to, without damaging that surface.  Recall, this chemistry is what's used in 'industry' where 'no' residue really is critical - like the computer chip industry, where any ionic charge left on the surface will screw up the works. I've explained all this over on the old café for the few who were willing to listen.
Recall, high pH chemistry tends to rip apart molecular bonds, eventually destroying the surface in the process. Witness the faded countertops and dull, weakened fabrics.
All the '...ates' work this way: carbonates, phosphates, borates, silicates, etc.  Wanna guess if chip makers use phosphates in their cleaning?  
Amines are similar, more of a corrosive result, covalent bond breakers for sure, recalling amines are Nitrogen+ charges attracting away negatively charged soils.

I've been fighting the whole industry on this subject and only a few of you have chosen to support it. A few is enough for now. Thanks for that support.  It's good to finally see the differences coming to light.  Eventually, maybe even the butyl, phosphate ridden cleaners will come out of their stupor and realize a better way of cleaning. But it'll never happen as an 'industry'.
It will only happen as a group of RCs taking charge of what is rightfully theirs; probably this group. So to Industry, I hope you all join me in a resounding "FU Industry."

Cool how we're exploring bond breakers as a group here with KK and the MEA I'm handing out.
This will lead us to a new thought process similar to what we learned in all the liquid peroxide versus powdered peroxide discussions... ahhha, I can do this myself!!!
The MEA is one I'll be sending you guys samples of.  Fred was the perfect guy to start with, a RC if I ever knew one.

High pH cleaning is what ya'll know best. It's what we do as an industry.
Nothing new or all that special, but a clear departure from what I've pushed on you guys in the more gentle cleaning you get from the S/O family.  I hope these discussions will lead us to what is true; that many times you can get great results the gentle way, other times you gotta get tough, as Fred just showed us. Sometimes, you need both.

I've finally got guys telling me S/O is outcleaning their harsh 'industry' products in restaurants and such. I saw this too. It's the likes dissolves likes thing going on.
I also had to get past the fact that S/O sees the salt residues from the harsh ...ate chemistries as soil, and I've explained before, some S/O actually gets used up before it can begin to really clean.
I should probably be more forgiving of Takers/Lurkers, Freeloadeers try my S/O only to complain, 'it takes 6oz to get good results, blah, blah, blah.'  I tend to fire their asses on the spot and go find the few who are open to a better way of clean.  You butyl, phosphate, borate, d-limonene guys, you are the cheap skates of the 'industry' and ironically, it is your very cheap-ed-ness that is holding you back.    
 
Gonna be cool to see where this goes.  Maybe some 'industry specific' gurus, specialists, ex-spurts, retail rip-off artists will come here to debate me and the few who support gentle cleaning.
Better hurry, cuz I'll have all the gentle guys on TV before you can call me a bathtub chemist one more time.  
In fact, you ALL better rush here and try to stop this next movement ... before it breaks your crooked backs.

What does MEA stand for Joe? My very thorough and scientific test for residue- pour some KK on the painted portion of my van near the heat from the exhaust in the full sun. Run a finger nail over that area when finished with job. Could not discern anything. lol

"What does MEA stand for Joe? My very thorough and scientific test for residue- pour some KK on the painted portion of my van near the heat from the exhaust in the full sun. Run a finger nail over that area when finished with job. Could not discern anything. lol"


Notice the harsh guys - DP & Chip - get right to it - how can I go around you?
Why else did you ask that prior to anything else?  

To test it, use the dirty back window like I said.  Just agitate, don't rinse. Look at it with your eyeballs fool. Use a rag once dry if your eyes are bad.
Both you guys have homework, 10 page essay on - How to become a residue free cleaner or Self-recovery from neuro-toxic chemical cleaning.

Did I miss something? What is MEA ammonia ?

methylethylamine = odorless ammonia= an active ingredient in several high pH cleaners, possibly Krud too.
Now see if you can find it.

Big residue cleaner. I just cleaned my four wheeler with it and my hands felt like leather afterwards. With in two days my hands were exfoliating.

KK or MEA?

MEA samples going out to Chip, Charlie and Ryan, resident real cleaner chemists, RCCs.
Anybody else ?

eldiabloz wrote:KK or MEA?

KRudKutter

Oh yeah, I forgot a spilled the bucket I was using to clean my four wheeler. Doesn't look biodegradable Eco friendly to me.

LOL.

Ryan S wrote:Big residue cleaner. I just cleaned my four wheeler with it and my hands felt like leather afterwards. With in two days my hands were exfoliating.

Probably a good idea to use gloves when working with any high ph product regardless of the DFE symbol or claims of earth friendliness. As far as the lawn, again, high ph.

I was laughing at so many levels. About anything would have burned that grass, even warm water.
S/O mixed strong enough to cut grease will kill grass too, especially if you pour the dirty water onto it.
Both you shoulda gotten samples of MEA. So far only Charlie has reported back. It worked nicely for him on a dirty restaurant carpet. Show em what you did Charlie.

I do not know about cleaning vehicle with the KK but my wife is painting our kitchen. "How do I get all the grease and grime off the walls near the stove , TSP?" she asked. I thought about it, Try this stuff, I gave her the Krud Kutter. When I came home she was pissed. " Why didn't you tell me about this stuff before?, look at these walls! They have never been cleaner". She then proceeded to replace the solution in her Swiffer with diluted KK ( drilled a whole in the top of the container which is actually the bottom if un-installed and plugged with a stopper).
She is hooked. Loves this stuff, claims it got the floor 10 times as clean and is DFE certified. Since she can dilute it with water it comes out to 1/10 the cost of swiffer refills. Tell your wives if they use a swiffer.

DfE certified?

I didn't know DfE certifies anything. What exactly do they certify?
And where is the DfE on the label?
I see some make-shift earth graphic that sorta resembles the DfE logo, but nothing else.
What exactly is safe about this product Chip?

I was looking at all the companies and chems on the DfE website today, and KK was one of them I remember seeing, as being DfE approved.

One of my local suppliers old accounts they could never get clean or dry in under 2 days...

^^You're using the Kurd Kutta to bonnet clean in that video??^^

I believe what Charlie is showing (and Fred before him) how you can boost S/O or S/O/E with MEA.
MEA is another ammonia alternative... the subject of this thread.  It works to raise the pH.  
These guys can show their prospective customers the S/O Labeled product, which proudly displays the DfE logo, instead of an off-the-shelf product that does not display the logo.
Goomer and Chip, do you guys actually let your customers know you use these types of products?  
Which product would you guys rather show off... one with or another without the DfE Logo on the label?
Or does it even matter to you?

How about you other guys? Are any of you taking the initiative in promoting safe chemistry?
Or is it just about what works best, regardless of health or safety consequences?
Please speak up.
   
From the the DfE site... under What does the Label mean?
"Product manufacturers who become DfE partners, and earn the right to display the DfE logo on recognized products ..."

see also...
For more information, please see DfE's Standard for Safer Cleaning Products (PDF) (28 pp, 157K, About PDF) and DfE's criteria for safer ingredients.

Title of the video doesnt show up unless you watch it on youtube, its SO and MEA .. no krudkutter

DFE logo on KK jug.

Who woulda known.
Thanks Chip. If you hadn't taken a picture of the DfE Logo down there in the far corner ...
Not a word of explanation... your little 1-lot orders won't be missed.

Hardly proud of DfE are they?
Hardly supportive of me are you Chipo?
Ever tried SOS? Why do that when you can snag a competitive product right there next to Ms Homeowner huh Chip?
Why support an RC who's dumped $1,000 to make your life better.
If every cleaner was like you, I wouldn't even be here would I?

Where's Goomer?

How bout the rest of you... Is this the kind of support I get?

Time for Brevik to put up an old Dangerfield act.

I just had a talk with our employees about using safer alternative cleaning products. I told them about Soils and Oils, Soils and Oils with Solvent. I informed them that the chems that they are used to using are extremely harmful to their health.

I told them that I am researching the use of the soils and oils product line to provide safe cleaning products for them. So far I have found a window cleaner, general cleaner, and also a degreaser. I'm working on using MEA with soils and oils for window cleaner.

I tell my customers how we clean using safer alternatives than harmful chems. I tell them we are concerned about our safety around chems and that benefits them because we are providing a safe clean environment for them while we clean.

I just might put you product to the grass test Joe.


Might want to look this MSDS over.
http://www.krudkutter.com/images/msds/kk-original%20krud%20kutter.pdf