Anyone have a favorite heat exchanger unit?

Since I just read that propane is going up to $5 a gallon and I am getting close to buying a new tm (next year or two unless I find a deal I cannot pass up sooner than that) I would really like to get a heat exchange unit. Can you tell me/us about why you prefer or dislike HE units?

I can't speak about any of the Hx out there except the Butler units that I have been running since '99. That being said, some points.

Pro:
+ Very little maint.
+ Never run out of fuel
+ Take up less space
+ No risk of fire or pilot blowing out
+ Make decent heat as long as flow is maintained

Neg:
- Can develop leaks into the vehicle of coolant
- Only get as hot as the engine can provide...210-220.
- Can lead to air pockets in cooling systems on engine coolant designs

Personally, the knock against Hx (especially the Butler) has been the lack of heat. I certainly admit to wanting more in the winter, but the rest of the year, I maintain 210 at the machine and with good flow practices, keep it at 180 atw out to 200 feet. IF you can't clean with that, there is a problem.

Where the winter becomes a problem are 2 things:

1. If you don't drive far enough for the engine to get up to full temperature, your heat will not be there. I had a store that I cleaned less than 2 blocks from my storage building and I had to take a 15 minute drive first to get things warmed up before I could clean.

2. Water in the lines cool down very quickly when the flow is stopped and it takes a few seconds to restore the heat if you don't use a bypass valve or some other method of maintaining flow.

I personally prefer the Hx units, but winter heat is the downside for many systems. If you prefer to clean at higher temps than 180-190 atw, then you will be disappointed.

I've only used 3 Hx machines, fox, hydra master and prochem, fox is like Rob described, 180 - 190 degrees, but hydra master and prochem gets hotter, the only hydra master I used was boxer 421 which Ryan has, I don't know much about how the Hx system works but if you set to high, it gets to 210 - 220 at the machine, I hope Ryan will confirm this since it's been a while since I used that.
Prochem I've used are performers and everests, they are all water cooled and they used pre heater Hx which used the engine coolant to heat some of the water and then there's the final exhaust Hx, that's why they get hotter water and maintain better heat than the air cooled Hx ( aside from having a bigger engine also ).
Personally, I've never had those issues Rob mentioned, my issues with my machines are usually non Hx related, such as sensors, wiring, hoses, etc.
Well I've had one issue with one of my everest, it kept bogging down and it turned out my Hx got a lot of gunks and grease deposits, after the cleaning it's running good again.
The key is to keep your hx clean, make sure your overflow shut off sensor is working so that your tank don't overflow into it and keep the water flowing so that the water don't get too hot in your machine, of course there's always bypass but high temperatures can Crack fittings and such over time.

I have run a Boxxer 421 for over seven years with no HX problems so far easily heats 230 to 235 at the truck . I do run soft water all the time in the truck, which I think helps. I just bought a CDS 4.8 with Salsa. This unit heats to 235 at the truck. I have been happy with Hydramasters HX.

What kind of unit are u currently running ken? You might be able to add some preheater to the system, to save on fuel, or build a hx.

actually most carpet cleaning van fires are from HX units,   not propane.    

gasoline is far more combustible,   propane only burns as a gas not as a liquid.

I havent heard anything from my supplier about the price going up,  other than the usual increase in winter time due to demand.


Were cleaning more efficient and faster then ever running higher temps and putting the rv360 down for now...    the difference in cleaning speed from 180/190 and 220+ atw is huge,     long fast single passes wiping it completely clean with 1 stroke,    then faster dry passes carpet drys in like 2 hrs max

I run a Steamway Powermatic 2100. I am pretty convinced I don't ever need the heat my fire breather can produce. I set the temp at the machine at 200°. But I'd like to not have to buy $75 worth of kerosene every other month and more often.

The key temp is atw, it is very important to know that number. I agree with others that more heat atw can make a big difference, but are you getting that?

I get 200 - 205 degrees at the machine (decent enough heat), but will not be anything close to that atw where it normally drops to about 180 degrees on this old Butler unit.

I still contend that I don't have any problem cleaning at those temps., but there are times when more heat would make me happy. The newer Butler units do get hotter and should run about 200 atw...just something to think about.

ACpower1 wrote: Were cleaning more efficiently and faster than ever running higher temps and putting the rv360 down for now...   the difference in cleaning speed from 180/190 and 220+ atw  is huge. Long fast single passes wiping it completely clean with 1 stroke, then faster dry passes carpet drys in like 2 hrs max

Yup. Exactly what a good wand and some decent heat can do for you.
You got me all excited saying that, "220+ atw  is huge. Long fast single passes wiping it completely clean with 1 stroke..."

I used to have that setup but it was a PC150 burning di esel cuz I was too cheap to buy kerosene.  Still it got damn hot.
And it was a 14lb PC Tri-jet wand with no glide. Of course I didn't need one with that #3 blower.
Well, another difference was I had to do a long sloooow stroke. But it was still one stroke.
And my trigger valve was the old POS PC that popped open to tell me when I was over 200F.  
It was my buddy who talked me into a PMF HOE wand with its single jet a mile off the carpet that made me realize just how important heat really is.
I used to drop those meat thermometers on the ground to see if I was losing heat.... I was.
So that was the first wand to get a Wanders Thermometer.
I put the thermometer up high and down low on the same wand thinking there might be a drop in temps. There wasn't.

The real drop in temps comes from that distance the water has to travel going from the tip of the jet to the fiber.

When I finally had time to make High Shear Kits HSKs, I did it with passion for all the wands worth doing it for.
First, I went with the widest jet, the 110 degree jet, so I could get the widest coverage from each jet, knowing that I'd put it as close to the floor as I could get it without streaking.  Then I determined the optimum lateral spacing so we get 50% overlap (as opposed to what Spraying Systems recommended 35%).
That was one project. If you notice every one of my HSKs uses the exact same jets, and spacing. Only the number of jets varies as dictated by the head, 12", 14", 15" etc.
I stopped at 6 jet cuz all my testing showed 16" wands to be a bad idea. Sorry Tony Dang ... but you shoulda stopped copying me at the 15" head.
So the right jet, the right spacing and the right distance from the carpet... only thing missing was the ability to change the shear angle on the fly, thus the ARC bracket.
All fully disclosed, no one dared copy it, not even today in this world of mass thievery.
I knew they wouldn't and not because of moral reasons but because they are only in it for the money.  
It woulda taken them one more jet than they were willing to shell out for.
Their loss. Your gain.

Look at all the Fools claiming to make high performance wands. Look at what jet they use. .. the 95 degree,. One reason: mo money fo them.
It lets them get away with one less jet...
But Greenie got it right and so did I. Hell, even US Products got it right; at least on their 6-jet wand (though there's other features of the wand that are awful).
PMF tried to get out of doing it right, but they eventually came around. Curt told me it was cuz their customers asked for it. Duh. No shoot. They'd all heard about the 6-jet HSK I'd made for their wand and how bad their 5-jet paled in comparison. I even offered to make mine available to them but they said no to me but eventually they did it. Still it's heavy, weak and not very adjustable compared to mine. Yet, marketing rules. Cleaners who think lots of ads is what makes a good wand end up buying bad wands.  
The guys buying them pay too much for too little, then they end up calling me, but at least it gets fixed.  

Here's a testy from today, a guy who had bot their stock 5-jet 15" Mach wand and who just installed my 6-jet HSK.
He didn't even know what HSK stood for but he'd heard how good it was so he just bought it.
I asked him, 'How is the HSK working for you?"
Him, "What is HSK?"
me, "it's what you just bought, a High Shear Kit."
Him, "Haha,I am a little slow today. The kit works awesome. I hated the 15" PMF ti wand until I put the shear kit on. With the way PMF had it jetted it streaked real bad and did not clean well. It is a totally different wand now and cleans awesome!! I am glad I found your site."

True story. You just can't make this stuff up.

Moral of story - you need to support the guys trying t make your life better. This is NOT a knock on AC. He thanks me plenty.

Here's what I'm talking about; another true story...
So, Doug Cox is over at guess where, Mikey Board, (where else?), belly aching how I cut him off but how it didn't hurt him cuz he's still got plenty of my products plus he can sneak anything else of mine in anytime he wants.  Then the Kolfer Gopher or whoever he is, is joking with him, and elsewhere confirming that's what he does too.
In Doug's case, you guys may remember (I sure do) on Foster's board after we all left, Doug saying how he didn't like the Foster valve Joe had sold him...(knowing full well Bob had banned me so I couldn't defend myself) Doug was complaining how the valve opened too easily.  Any of ya'll remember that?  Well, I spent a few thousand dollars fixing that lil  problem so lil boy Doug would be happy.  Then when I presented it to him he refused me, saying he didn't want it, period.  So Hell yes, I cut the Fool off.
And as you know I never take a guy back once I cut him.  He will lay and rot into the floor before I reach down to help him again.  He damn sure ain't getting a "Joe" valve, unless of course he 'sneaks' one in.  Maybe Gopher will help him.  I love watching these lil boys do their thing. Dougie had that Avatar of the small boy with a Mohawk, flipping off the photographer. Remember? It was perfect for little boy Doug. And Gopher needs to be popping his head up out of an a-hole hole with the caption, "see what I snuck into my hole?" holding a butt plug he just stole from the drawer of a customer he'd just cleaned for.  

Meanwhile, we got a few honest Real Cleaners over here and scattered sparsely throughout the world who get the best of what I've got.  
If that ain't good enough, F U 2.
You all better damn well know I expect a lil thank you every time I offer to help you.
THEN if it ain't right, THEN you can complain. But you need to be doing it here or somewhere else where I can defend myself, NOT Mikeyboard (ya'll probably don't know it, but I am not allowed there).  I've tried to log in but they have me blocked. I wonder why? I am pretty sure we all know... I'd tear them up with truths so badly Mikey'd have to shut the place down, Right Mikey???

Same with TMF... I'm not allowed there either am I Rob & Tre?  Afraid a little Truth might screw up your game plan?

Apologies to you pussies over here with delicate ears, but every once in a while I have to set things straight ... it has been awhile ya know?

Actually, some free advise, the infamous 'Troll' Marty Sutley, who I otherwise despise, is the world's best at subtly pointing out what a con Mikey is.
Study Marty's lil one-liners very carefully and see if you don't agree.