Zipper Wand Floater/Loaner

Joe wants us to wait before saying too much. But I use it on EVERY residential job. I went with the 13" and my friend bought the 15" loaner we had. It takes awhile to get comfortable using it in residential, but it is now my fav tool. The results are outstanding while leaving the carpet twice as dry as glided wand. Rotaries leave carpet too wet for my liking, too slow and I hate that you still have to use a wand anyway.

You do use tons of water with it, I have 210 fresh/waste so I am good. That's what my biz is all about anyway. You can clean light with 350 psi which leaves less water behind then low moister or crank it up to 600 psi for severe and let it do all the work and still have really good dry times. It is so easy to push. My shoulder pains have gone!

Overall, we're batting .500 so far.
Only the positives reviews are gonna show up here. Like a lot of tools, seems like the guys who have the strongest desire initially are the ones who like it the most after using it. Those I'm having to encourage to try it are not so impressed after using it. Maybe it's they need a 'getting used to it' period like you say Bill. The ones who don't like it initially don't even want to take it out for a second job. I've also noticed that big guys who feel the wand as a toothpick are not liking it. Techs say they can wand faster. Maybe it's that they want it to be their idea, needs to grow on them. I've seen this for years with Cool Cuffs. For the purpose of the maximum long term acceptance let's please refrain lest we create a case of 'irrational exuberance' here. I really believe we will get more real result by keeping our opinions to ourselves for a bit longer. Might even avoid a bubble. All good products take time to develop.

Good thoughts Joe. I like the approach. Creates trust.

Your right Joe! It is a love or hate deal.

It's true, I knew I was going love it before I tried it as I had been looking for something like this for a few years. I was one of the first guys to demo the Stryker wand. I really had high hopes it, but it was a joke. Took one job to figure it out and I really, really wanted to love that one. Then the Hoss, just as disappointing. The 360i, just not my cup of tea. The RX20 still a solid tool, but too heavy and leaves the carpet too wet. Cylindrical brush machine, way too slow. Same deal with a floor machine. All these options are fine if you clean severe soil conditions daily. You have no other option, and these tools will shine.

I don't. I clean light to moderate soil conditions 98% of the time. I have only cleaned a handful of rentals in the last 5 years. I clean more for health and maintenance then anything. I came to love high flow and high heat. I use to run a Bob Savage heater and cleaned at 240F at the wand with 15 flow on the CMP15. I learned that you could use very, very small amounts of chems and really safe ones, and let the huge amounts of soft dechlorinated water due most of the cleaning. The opposite of VLM.

Using high amounts of water was a challenge and I grew tired of propane and so I bought Butler with the MAX heat/vac package and the 210 water and 200 waste tank. I was worried about the heat, but the Butler engineer helped me understand that the system will provide more heat with higher flow rates unlike many other truck mount designs. The have some very interesting theories and designs in that regard. Anyways, to make a long story short, my Butler was made for my business model.

I was happy with all of this and have a great business with people who sometimes wait one to months to book my services. Yet, I always want more. I am never satisfied with good enough and always feel the need to push the limits.

Then comes the Zipper. I wanted to try one a couple of years back but after trying a long list of disappointing tools, I could justify the risk. Then Eric made the Cintas deal. Thanks to Joe and the Lounge, I was able to try before I buy. I knew after the first few minutes I was buying one. Same with another 35 year industry veteran. It's like this tool was made specially for my business. I would not change a thing. Except I did just put on a variable flow control valve and gauge so I can adjust the PSI on the fly.

You will know right away if you love or hate it. In commercial I don't see how anyone could not love it, but I am here to talk about residential. In my opinion, it is a niche tools for guys who hate rotaries and where most of there bread and butter jobs are light to moderate soiling where extreme flushing AND fast dry times are most important. Think of it as the VLM antichrist. If that's your thing and you have a decent truck mount that can handle lots of water, you will have a dream tool. I would think 50/50 is high. I think it fits a much smaller niche then that. I just hope Eric can find enough these guys to sell lots of Zippers.

Allot of guys will not like it. Allot of guys just won't get it. Allot of guys won't need it. And some will love it and ask themselves: "Why did no one thinks of this before?"

In fact, I think Eric needs to market it that way. Like the beer Arrogant Bastard, it became a cult sensation from the marketing.

Arrogant Bastard label: (Think Zipper)

This is an aggressive ale. You probably won’t like it. It is quite doubtful that you have the taste or sophistication to be able to appreciate an ale of this quality and depth. We would suggest that you stick to safer and more familiar territory–maybe something with a multi-million dollar ad campaign aimed at convincing you it’s made in a little brewery, or one that implies that their tasteless fizzy yellow beverage will give you more sex appeal. Perhaps you think multi-million dollar ad campaigns make things taste better. Perhaps you’re mouthing your words as you read this.

At Stone Brewing, we believe that pandering to the lowest common denominator represents the height of tyranny - a virtual form of keeping the consumer barefoot and stupid. Brought forth upon an unsuspecting public in 1997, Arrogant Bastard Ale openly challenged the tyrannical overlords who were brazenly attempting to keep Americans chained in the shackles of poor taste. As the progenitor of its style, Arrogant Bastard Ale has reveled in its unprecedented and uncompromising celebration of intensity. There have been many nods to Arrogant Bastard Ale…even outright attempts to copy it… but only one can ever embody the true nature of liquid Arrogance!

Here ya go Eric, the Zipper, the Arrogant Bastard of the cleaning industry.

The Zipper™ Dual Port Walk Behind Cleaning Wand

This is an aggressive high flow dual port walk behind wand. You probably won’t like it. It is quite doubtful that you have the taste or sophistication to be able to appreciate a machine of this quality and sophistication. We would suggest that you stick to safer and more familiar territory–maybe something with a multi-million dollar ad campaign featuring the color blue aimed at convincing you it’s made for real cleaners, or one that implies that their fancy rotary action will give you more sex appeal. Perhaps you think multi-million dollar ad campaigns make things clean better. Perhaps you’re mouthing your words as you read this.

At Carpet Care Pro Manufacturing Inc., we believe that pandering to the lowest common denominator represents the height of tyranny - a virtual form of keeping the carpet cleaning professional barefoot and stupid. Brought forth upon an unsuspecting public in 2007, the Zipper™ openly challenged the tyrannical overlords who were brazenly attempting to keep Americans chained in the shackles of poor quality equipment, false promises and endless upgrades. As the progenitor of its style, the Zipper™ Dual Port Cleaning Wand has reveled in its unprecedented and uncompromising celebration of intensity. There have been many nods to the Zipper…even outright attempts to copy it in plastic… but only one can ever embody the true nature of pure carpet cleaning Arrogance!

Thanks Bill, love the article. You have a talent for writing, very well written. Do you mind if I put this on my website? Glad to hear you are enjoying using the Zipper!

Hi Eric, yes, you can use and/or edit as you see fit. Dennis is loving the 15" as well.

WADR, the Model Bill expouses is not at all Erik's Model.
Erik's just in it for the money, by his own admission, like the majority of people.
Nothing wrong with that but it's certainly not beer man's motives.
Maybe if he really listens to what beer man's model is all about, maybe he'll change.
It's not about the money.

Thanks again Bill, it was very inspirational considering the Zipper is very different from any carpet cleaning tool on the market.


Joe- I have worked very hard in bringing a product to market that I believe in and so do many others.  I'm sorry you feel I'm only in it for the money. That's far from the truth! But, thanks for the post.

Erik,
You just watched the video Bill recommended (OO vs BNC the Beer man video) and still say this?

Joe- I do not see what you are getting at, but apparently we are not seeing eye to eye on this one. I found your post to be rude, and it does not portray my true character and/or beliefs. This is why i refrain from posting on the boards. I like you Joe, and we should not be having this kind of discussion here.

Erik,
What I am 'getting at' its that I take offense to you taking any form of credit for that message Bill put up.
By requesting to put it on your site, I believe that's exactly what you intended to do.
I resent that.

You are nothing like the guy who wrote that message. Nothing at all.
I should know. You call me almost daily asking me endless questions about how to proceed in moving your product.
Constantly feeling me out. Yes I resent that too.
You do have the unique ale so to speak, but you don't have anything close to the purpose of which that guy speaks.

That's why I asked you to watch the video; in hopes you would see what real purpose is.
His message is exactly opposite of yours.
His message is not about dropping the price like you have done.
His message is not about cheapening the product which you plan to do.
His message is not about selling out to the tyrannical thieves you have sold out to and plan yet to do again.
No.

His message is exactly the opposite.
He held his ground and made people find him; appreciate him for what he brought and gladly pay him top dollar for it.
And for those who complained that he was too hard to find, he smiled and thanked them and helped them leave.
Watch the video and see for yourself.
He congratulated himself for being unique and not following the money like you do Erik.

You have repeatedly said you would sell to anybody.
I said watch Bob Dylan's video on life-long morality.
If you had, you would see why it's important to pick & choose more wisely.
Did you watch it? I doubt it.
 
I couldn't believe what I heard you tell me yesterday when about who you plan to get in bed with next.
Tell the guys here Erik who you plan to have make the wand you want to make.

I find you an embarrassment and loathe the thought of you pretending to be anything like the arrogant bastard in the message.
Please tell me it would be posted in gest, just some funny words, nothing at all meant to describe you and your attitude.

I had hoped you could see it by watching the guys video.
You didn't even respond to my Q so I guess you didn't bother.
Why should you?  He's nothing like you.

Bill,
I'm sorry you brought this message up.
I'm with you in hoping he would market this way using the message, but it's simply a lie for him to pretend he is of that message.
He's not. Not in my opinion anyway.

From what I know of Erik, every decision he makes is tied to the dollar.
And correct me if I'm wrong Bill, but the Arrogant Bastard's decisions are based on morals, integrity, betterment of man, and somewhere way down the line.... money.
Right Bill?
Right anybody who studied the video?

He talks all through there, the money he's lost fighting for his causes.
Yet look where he really is - at the top of the heap in terms of money made in the niche he created.
He never went public. He never sold out.
He never discounted.  He never lurked. He never did any of this.
Yet money flowed to him.

He led.
He  focused on quality.
He let everything else fall wherever it may, money included.
This is the message I hope all OOs get.
It's not about money at all.
Money flows to leaders; the more arrogant you are, the more it flows. Just don't pretend it.

I hope Erik puts up the message just to spite me; maybe it'll be his first hint of arrogance.
Go Erik.

Yes Erik, I'll still sell your Zipper until you take it away  - again - but it will always be on the same basis, a good machine for aging wanders.
I'll never refer to you as having the integrity or the passion or the leadership or the vision of that guy who spoke that message.
Those will just be words on a website.

Joe and Eric,  I don't know what you both have talked about and I don't what to get involved in anything that might be personal.

But from reading between the lines above, let me just say this regarding the Beer Guy from Stone. They are a hugely successful company that has grown very big while keeping or better said, because of their unwavering quality and integrity. However, they sell their beer to anyone that will buy it. They sell to Costco which is completely the opposite business model. An important detail is that they don't discount it to Costco. Costco pays whats what any distributor pays, and Costco has to sell it at then same price that you can it anywhere else. Costco rarely makes a deal like that (it against the big box store model), and the only reason they do is becuase their customers want the convenience of buying it there. There is no other advantage.

Eric makes a unique, quality product. He wants to sell a ton of them, and I hope he does. I don't think he is selling out. Selling out is lowering the quality to sell more. Eric assured me that he will not do that. He has had many distributors tell him to use use cheaper components like everyone else in this industry and reduce the price so they can move units. Eric has not done it.

It reminds me off Bob Geldolf and the BoomTown Rats versus the Sex Pistols. They were punk band rivals. The Sex Pistols criticized the Boom Town Rats for arriving to shows in limos. Bob argued that Sex Pistols were too concerned with image. Why not ride in a Limo if it's free and more comfortable?

The Sex Pistols refused to go on Top of the Pops (a live top forty music show) because they were "too punk" to sell out. The Rats jumped at the oppurtunity because they wanted as many people as possible to be exposed to their music. What does punk have anything to with it? They were musicians. Funny thing is, The Pistols did go on Top of the Pops when their career was ending. They did sell out.

Jump to Live Aid. People criticized he line up, too many top 40 pop bands. Bob said the whole purpose is to get as many people possible to watch and raise as much money as possible. Who cares about artistic integrity. Culture Club had millions of fans, where some other bands had a few, so why put them on the line up. The goal was to raise money.

The point is, Eric makes a great uncompromising product and he refuses to lowers the quality. He has allot of money to recoup and I hope he is still in business when I need another Zipper. After manufacturing something like the Zipper in house, I could see how now is the time for putting first, the making of money.   

The problem for Eric is that his product is a niche product and requires a different approach to reach the people that will buy one. I don't see the Zipper becoming mainstream (I would love to be wrong on this), not because it's not brilliant, it's just too good and too specialized. Its rustic french bread and not wonder bread. It costs allot to manufacturer and will last so long, that future repeat sales are going to be a long time coming. Eric has to figure this out. And I really hope he does, I want him to make money and keep manufacturing this baby.

Growing because of your integrity and uncompromising quality is not bad. I have chose to not grow in the traditional sense, but will continue to evolve. My business model would not work in many smaller centres. I don't think I am any better then a low end rental cleaner. We are the same, just different business models.

The cool thing about the new economy it you can choose to stay whatever size is right for you. The great read on this is ReWork by the guys who brought us Ruby on Rails. They have rewritten all corporate rules and are widely successful.

Part of me wants to keep the Zipper private. My own personal secret. But that is self defeating. I learned long ago that true leaders and teachers openly share knowledge where power hungry leaders and bad teachers guard it. They are afraid of others becoming their equals or surpassing them.

Bottom Line: I want both of you guys to sell a boat load of Zippers!  

Again Bill, I resent Erik for posing as one representative of the Arrogant Bastard message.
Cuz behind that message is the man himself. He's absolutely like you say, sticking with quality, da,da,da.
The problem is that Erik is not like that guy.
If you thin he is you are wrong.
If you think he should pretend to be like him it would be a lie.

Beer guy starts off saying he's an 'open book' too. Remember that.
Erik on the other hand is completely the opposite.
He is not an open book. He is very secretive.
He is very planned as to what he says to who.
If he told you he's not going to lower quality he lied to you because he most certainly is. Will you deny it Erik?
Erik probly won't even respond; not because he is above controversy but because he is afraid the truth would be known, huh Erik?
Erik is the only guy I know who think he can do business with honest guys and crooks at the same time.
It'll never happen.
Erik lives on the boards yet seldom contributes.
He despises the same cons & liars I do but he doesn't have the guts to confront them. Do you Erik?

Erik, tell Bill the truth.

Did you sell out to Cintas or didn't you?  
Did you do it for money or not?
Did you secretly thank me for waking you up over & over as to what a mistake that was?
But then did you stay with them til they stopped paying you, and only then did you end it. Right or wrong?
And now you are planning to do business with similar people all over again for the same reason - money. Right or wrong?

Bill,
Don't plant inappropriate marketing models.
Dream whatever you want the scene behind the scene should be but don't expect it to be real cuz it's not.
Buy the machine based on what it is, not what you think it should be.
I'm selling it on that basis.
It's so automatic now I can do it with email. As long as my check clears it's all good.

I just learned a whole bunch from both Joe and Bill. Not about a product but about business evolution and much more. Thanks guys.

I know it can get ugly sometimes with this stuff but if you follow closely you can learn a lot from these intelligent individuals.

Thanks

"The problem for Eric is that his product is a niche product and requires a different approach to reach the people that will buy one. I don't see the Zipper becoming mainstream (I would love to be wrong on this), not because it's not brilliant, it's just too good and too specialized. Its rustic french bread and not wonder bread. It costs allot to manufacturer and will last so long, that future repeat sales are going to be a long time coming. Eric has to figure this out. And I really hope he does, I want him to make money and keep manufacturing this baby."


This specific "issue" is what I'm going to comment to, this is the reason why I believe Hondas and Toyotas are the biggest car manufacturer in the world, they build QUALITY cars that lasts a LONG time. Are they financially desperate because they sell quality cars that last a long time ? I can guarantee the answer is no, they're not because there are always new customers that disappointed of some other makes that wants to try new makes.
I heard from my customers that their carpets stay clean longer when I clean them, does that make me lose $$, absolutely not, because those people refer me to their family and friends, I actually make more $$ that way.

Please forgive me if I offend anyone, I'm just stating my opinion, not trying to side with anyone :-)

No doubt, the Quality is there. He's got the Holy Ale.
That's what Bill's all excited about.
And the price is what it is depending on what day of the week you talk to Erik; though he has pretty much settled on a price.

The only issue that got me all flustered was that marketing recommendation of Bill's, apparently based on bad info.
Nuf said. It's time for Erik to respond or it will stand - as truth, all I've said.
Erik, you can secretly call me all you want. I have caller ID and won't pic up until you've talked here. No more fuckin secret conversations.

dp1 wrote:"The problem for Eric is that his product is a niche product and requires a different approach to reach the people that will buy one. I don't see the Zipper becoming mainstream (I would love to be wrong on this), not because it's not brilliant, it's just too good and too specialized. Its rustic french bread and not wonder bread. It costs allot to manufacturer and will last so long, that future repeat sales are going to be a long time coming. Eric has to figure this out. And I really hope he does, I want him to make money and keep manufacturing this baby."


This specific "issue" is what I'm going to comment to, this is the reason why I believe Hondas and Toyotas are the biggest car manufacturer in the world, they build QUALITY cars that lasts a LONG time. Are they financially desperate because they sell quality cars that last a long time ? I can guarantee the answer is no, they're not because there are always new customers that disappointed of some other makes that wants to try new makes.
I heard from my customers that their carpets stay clean longer when I clean them, does that make me lose $$, absolutely not, because those people refer me to their family and friends, I actually make more $$ that way.

Please forgive me if I offend anyone, I'm just stating my opinion, not trying to side with anyone :-)

I agree. Except Honda is not even in the top 5!  Funny, you would expect them to be, right?

Yeah, most of my customers cycle 3-4 years. Eric needs to manufacture, reduce material and manufacturing costs without comprising quality then find the right partner who can market it. Or, just stay on the slow and steady course. As we all know, its hard to wear all the hats and do it all well.

Joe Bristor wrote:No doubt, the Quality is there. He's got the Holy Ale.
That's what Bill's all excited about.
And the price is what it is depending on what day of the week you talk to Erik; though he has pretty much settled on a price.

The only issue that got me all flustered was that marketing recommendation of Bill's, apparently based on bad info.
Nuf said. It's time for Erik to respond or it will stand - as truth, all I've said.
Erik, you can secretly call me all you want. I have caller ID and won't pic up until you've talked here. No more fuckin secret conversations.

Joe- I really have nothing to say to you other than you can't control people. (as bad as you want to) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As far as I'm concerned, you can sell 100 Zippers tomorrow and I wouldn't sell you one. (How's that for following the money?)

Btw, if you must know what I was calling you for- I was calling to tell you to go .... yourself!! (Now, there's no secret about that)

Nuf said, end of conversation! I will not debate with any closed-minded Narcissistic fool !

Well, I have no great comment to add to this conversation.  It reminds me of those years growing up  and seeing my parents fight, all you can do as a child is watch it and feel bad.  I saw a book title once that told you to "Love what you do, but hate your job".  I love to help a client and solve their problems.  I love to have that customer get excited that I got rid of that stain that they had been covering up when guests arrive.  I love when they sincerely say thank you when I am done.

I love what I do, but the business aspect of it, I often hate.  This is another example where the "job" of running a cleaning business is something that often makes me feel bad.  Not everyone is going to be a good match in business, but I would hope that they can find enough common ground to remain civil and accept that they have different goals and expectations.

I wish I had a better answer...I don't.

milspec6 wrote:Well, I have no great comment to add to this conversation.  It reminds me of those years growing up  and seeing my parents fight, all you can do as a child is watch it and feel bad.  I saw a book title once that told you to "Love what you do, but hate your job".  I love to help a client and solve their problems.  I love to have that customer get excited that I got rid of that stain that they had been covering up when guests arrive.  I love when they sincerely say thank you when I am done.

I love what I do, but the business aspect of it, I often hate.  This is another example where the "job" of running a cleaning business is something that often makes me feel bad.  Not everyone is going to be a good match in business, but I would hope that they can find enough common ground to remain civil and accept that they have different goals and expectations.

I wish I had a better answer...I don't.

Well said sir :-)

Very un professional

Meet the real Erik.
No response, just 'F-you for telling the truth about me.'

Hey Mo, how long you gonna let him advertise for free?
You know that's his only reason for being here don't you?
He hasn't sold a one on these boards since the original hoopla.
Start charging him like any real manufacturer and he'll disappear.

I'd just hoped to save a few backs with this thing, but it doesn't even do that.
Too narrow for commercial work.
Too awkward for residential.
Original Ale price was more like the price of a rotary extractor, yet it doesn't perform as well.
Now Trex is getting his sales. Embarrassing huh Erik?
Guess all the guys that looked at making it were smart to drop the idea?

My guess is there will be more used ones for sale than new ones.
Hell even Rex put his up for sale. Erik didn't even ask why. He knew.
At least we saved a few from wasting their money. You should be proud of that.
Hope Moyer's doesn't just take their money and head to the bank. That is IF he ever sells one.   
Good luck with that, your only supplier. Ouch.

Erik you've asked whether you should can the whole project?
Maybe this Floater is your answer.


On a brighter note...
I just got in an affordable Hard Surface wand from Westpak to float around.
It's new so expect some bugs, but it has promise.
In the end it'll work good and be about half the price of the others.
A nice & easy way to make a few extra bucks, just slidin around on vinyl.
I'll take some pics and get it ready to sail next week.


 

guess this means we can start talking about this tool openly?