Zipper Wand Floater/Loaner

You know when this Zipper loaner started I thought Eric was the one that lent the Zipper to the cleaners lounge so I gave him sponsor status. Then I found out you paid for the Zipper and lent it to the lounge and that's why I took the supporting status away from Eric.

I never really understood why the members that participated in this zipper loaner program were not allowed to make their observations public on the forum. Now the time has come.

I want to hear from the members that participated in this loaner program. What were your observations? Did you like? What were the pros? What were the cons?

Mlspec
Ryan
AC Power
Clean Tech
Davey Cracker
And anybody else who particpated

Eric is a stand up guy and just wants to sell his product.

CleanTech wrote:guess this means we can start talking about this tool openly?

Yes it does Dustin

Here is my report that I already sent to Joe. Pretty much the same, but with a few updates as I use the Zipper more and more. Thanks Eric, Joe and Mo (Cleaners Lounge) for the putting together the loaner program!

A Serious High Production Tool

We put the Zipper up against the Cimex in cleaning over 20,000 sq/ft of carpet.

Twice a year we clean a 20,000 ft conference hall. Normally we Cimex the main auditorium of 10,800 sq/ft and steam clean the front lobby and entrance ways of 7500 sq/ft and also some additional rooms adding up to another 2500 sq/ft. Last time we had three Cimex’s cleaning the main auditorium, some other rooms, and two truck mounts steam cleaning the lobby. It took 4 hours and about 4 to 6 hours to dry.

This time I decided to use the Zipper wand and extract all the carpet on my own. Actually, my wife helped out and we took turns using the Zipper. We pre-sprayed and then extracted with the Zipper. We average 2,700 sq/ft the first day finishing the main auditorium in just under 4 hours. The carpets where we started were bone dry when we left. We used the paper towel kneeling test, and picked up zero moisture. This was really good news, as the auditorium was scheduled to used that evening at 6:00pm.

The next morning we cleaned the lobby and other areas. This time we deliberately slowed down a little as we were dealing with entrance way dirt, grime, food and coffee spills. We completed the job again in 4 hours averaging 2500 sq/ft per hours. The carpets looked fantastic. The waste water was blacker and thicker then I have ever seen before and my 5 gallon filter box bags were filled with a surpassing amount gunk and yes, hair, even though this building has an excellent vacuuming regime. The Zipper cleans deeper then any other cleaning wand, period.

Conclusions Using the Zipper on Commercial Carpets

First, cleaning over 20,000 sq/ft with the Zipper put very little strain on the body. More then anything we simply felt like we walked allot! None of the usual strain and pain in the shoulder, neck, arms and wrist. I will be buying a Zipper for this reason alone. As Eric says, “your body is not stressed!” The speed of which you can move with the Zipper is nothing short of amazing. It actually drew a crowd of observers! Most thought it had to be motorized and self-propelled. You will feel new muscles in your back! But that is normal for muscles you don’t use and need to be strengthened.

Second, it out cleaned and out dried the Cimex while maintaining an even faster speed. The question begs to asked: “Why Cimex (Encap) when you can flush and really clean the carpets at faster rate and achieve the same if not even faster dry times?”

I think the real beauty of hot water extracting with the Zipper is often overlooked on the cleaning forums. This is a niche tool that gives competent owner operators a way of separating themselves from the pack now that the Cimex and encaping has become mainstream and the budget hack-style over wetting hot water extraction is the other alternative. With careful marketing, you can have your own specialty commercial market and take the high road while doing it.

More and more people are concerned about indoor air quality and VOC’s. Speed and dry times are still important for busy commercial centres. The Zipper can deliver on all these concerns. When we used the Cimex on this facility the last time, we used 6 gallons of a peroxide based encap that has a startling high usage rate of 10 oz per gallon of water. Granted this is a high number (normally about three gallons would do it) but that was the only way we could get good results on the numerous food and coffee spill and an even appearance. In Canada we pay a premium for cleaning products and so that job cost us about $350 including pads. With the Zipper we used a total of 4 cups of a VOC free pre-conditioner with a soft water rinse and about $60 in fuel to run the truck mount. So that comes to a whooping total of $80. Now you might we able to get by with cheaper encap solutions and ones that require less dilution, but it still will cost you more then flushing the carpets clean with the Zipper. The way the cleaning head of the unit captures the heat along with the higher PSI and flow equates to high performance.  

Of course, you also have to figure in the cost of using the truck mount versus the Cimex, but the benefits of cleaning with the Zipper are more than worth it. Instead of leaving 3-6 gallons of cleaning chemicals in the carpet, we left a minute amount. The manager of the facility and his wife both “felt” the carpets were cleaner and they also “feel better about having a facility that is more friendly to people who suffer from chemical sensitivities and asthma”.  They confessed they never really were sold on the whole encap theory and stressed out about vacuuming. They never really “felt” the carpets were clean. In fact, it gave them the creeps to think about it! These comments are subjective, true, but it really does not matter, as they are sold on this method as the best way to care for the carpets of their facility. Those are the customers we can attract with high performance cleaning with the Zipper.

Zipper and Residential

What about using the Zipper on residential?  Remember when you first used a hole glide and angled jets and you were shocked and excited how when you went back to check the first room you cleaned and it was almost dry? I am now having the same experience again. The carpets dry that much faster again with the Zipper. Extraordinary dry times and really, really deep cleaning. The Zipper will dry faster then any other low moisture system that used water. The flushing power is fantastic and relegates additional agitation to only the very worst of jobs. Honestly, I do not get really trashed jobs, so for me I can safely say “good by” to additional agitation or the use of rotaries. I dislike using rotaries on residential. My first job with the Zipper was a very long hose run into a cold (winter) basement with a white cut pile nylon that was pretty bad by my standard. The Zipper cut through it all beautifully with no extra effort or harsh cleaning chemicals. I had the PSI turned up to 550/600 on this one and expected the carpet to be wetter then normal, but when I kneeled down, to my surpass it was barely damp.

Manoeuvrability. I had the 15” Zipper on loan and it manages surprisingly well in tight areas. However, I would be interested in seeing how much more agile the 13” Zipper would be for residential. I love using a 14” wand, but I think the 13” Zipper would be a better choice for residential use. Until you use the Zipper and realize how you can clean back and forth with no need for dry strokes or careful overlapping, the speed difference between the 13” and the 15” would be nil in my estimation. In fact the 15” might be slower due to being less agile and harder to push on some carpets. Update, I bought the 13” Zipper and it is more agile in residential. So far in two months, I have only had to use the wand once for a really tight job and once for a thin area rug.

Area rugs. The Zipper on area rugs is a real treat. Little to no over spray and a much more deeper clean with no fears of over wetting on hardwood. Gilded wands are great on area rugs but the Zipper is much, much better. On thinner rugs it won’t work as it just sucks too hard and will grab the edge of the carpet. It removes tons of gunk out of wool rugs.

Other ramblings. One other thing I like was how quiet the Zipper is, and it really makes a difference, I feel more relaxed while using it and now dread my noisy stair tool. I raised the rear wheels about an 1/4” and that seemed perfect for most padded carpets. On a high pile cut nylon, you can raise it even more. Play around with the height settings.

Negatives. No tool is perfect. The Zipper is not a catch all tool. In residential, it is not a time saver like commercial, and will take a little longer then a wand, but the results are worth it and its still faster then a precrub/wand combo or a rotary. It does take time to get use to it, and learn not fight it, but instead maximize it’s strengths. You will either love it or hate it. You need to retrain your brain. You will know what I mean when you use it. As mentioned it removes a ton of gunk. That gunk and hair will build up quickly on the front slotted glide. At the end of each job, just run the hose across the glide creating a seal with your fingers and remove the hair. That way you will never have to use the tweezers that Eric supplies with the unit! Also, while its true you can jet the Zipper to match your TM, I still think you want a decent sized blower, and you will use lots of water. But that's why it cleans so well.

Summery. I hope Eric sells hundreds of this amazing piece of engineering and design. I invited a 35 year carpet cleaning veteran who has a very successful business  to try it out on that large commercial job. We always get together to test new products. Nothing that has come out in the last few years has impressed either of us, despite the hype. These experiences have left us both jaded. It took me awhile to convince my friend to come and try the Zipper. After using it for only ten minutes he turned to me and said, “Why has no one thought of this before now? I have been cleaning for 35 years, and have never been left so impressed by a single piece of equipment.” Needless to say, we both purchased the Zipper!

Dustin has some really great videos of the Zipper in action. Lets see them Dustin!

Well that's just f-u-cking won-der-ful.

I started this $hit, and my chance at trying it is over before it even got within 2000 miles of me.   

Time to make our own I guess, but even better!!!@   

Dave, I think I say on Eric's site that he has a 30 day trial. Just try it on your own. Better yet, get another local guy or two to split the shipping costs and each try it for a week or so.

Guys, time to add your reviews. Don't be afraid to post if the tool is not your cup of tea. Balance is good. Just be honest.

In my full review above, the customer of the 20,000 ft job posted this review on HomeStars (they verify their reviews):

"I manage a 20'000 square foot commercial building that has between 1800-4000 people in and out of it on a weekly basis. New carpet was installed in the summer and Bill is doing a fabulous job in maintaining it. He recently cleaned it and it looked better than when it was first replaced. It is of upmost importance to keep the carpets clean without the use of V.O.C's. Bill uses the latest technology and his products are hypoallergenic and leave no residues which maintains the indoor air quality and very vibrant carpet. There are also a number of built in benches that are often used for lunch and coffee breaks and all the spills come out beautifully. Bill is able to maintain this large space in a timely manner. I recommend Get Fresh to anyone."

Constructive Debate - Good
Detructive personal attacks - Bad.
Drinking beer, wine, and vodka - Good
Telling someone how, when, or why to drink - Bad
  

carpetdaddy wrote:Constructive Debate - Good
Detructive personal attacks - Bad.
Drinking beer, wine, and vodka - Good
Telling someone how, when, or why to drink - Bad
  

Thats it, right there. Words to live by.

I love my Zippers. I've got the 15 and 13 inch heads. It's all I use on commercial carpets. I find it's less fatiguing and cleans faster than a wand. Erik has been very willing to help me with questions I've had and give advice.

Did you guys see that? Now those are Real Cleaners connecting and sharing with The Lounge. I admire you two.

Now just to let you guys know not all the reviews are great about the Zipper but that information is being withheld and that frustrates the heck out of me because it goes against the principles of this forum " Connecting , Sharing, and Learning"

Now I'm going to take a break from this forum  to clear my head. You guys have a great weekend

For the record on the zipper since I'm like the guy who follows the yeses apparently. When I got the call to get it I let it go it the next guy, do you remember how many times Joe? I do twice! I was in no hurry to get it. Heck I was about to turn it down completely. I was going to use it because I know guys trust my opinion and know I'm a regular carpet cleaning guy that does commercial and residential, as well as an active opinion guy.  

My approach on the thing was if it could I'm prove production I would consider it.  Remember that about our conversation Joe?  I admittedly am not a modification guy, I am and always have been a equipment application guy, does it work, does it improve production, does to make doing the job easier?  That who I am.  That's how I approach products. If that's wrong then pass me by.

As far as that goes I had two other local cleaners in town I was going to let them have some time with it. To me it was about application.

Guess I'll just mow down this upcoming load of CGD I built up for my VT14.

Hey Ryan, I can't tell from your post, did you end up trying it or not?

No

(I was hoping that this floater prgram might continue once things calmed down, but I guess it is done.  Reviews are being posted, so I guess I will include mine).

I was one of those cleaners that really wanted to like this wand from the start.  As soon as I took it out of the box, I was impressed with the appearence and apparent quality of the wand.  My hopes were high.

I tried it on a store front entry at a large grocery store chain to get some trigger time prior to larger jobs.  The manager was intrigued by the Zip and wanted to see it in action.  Unfortunately, it sufferred from a bad case of chatter and I looked like the father of that little leaguer who is picking his nose on third base, but that was my fault as I didn't set the height properly.

Once the height was adjusted a few times to find the right one, I was off to the races.  It cleaned well without needing a second pass and it was giving me good dry times, but I was not happy with the location of the solution hose as it attached to the handle right in the middle allowing the hot hose to hang down near my leg.  No big deal, just strapped it to the vac hose and finished the job.  

A couple of nights later was the marathon job that is basically 10-12 hours of straight wanding.  I normally did this contract with an RX-20 for the really bad areas and the PMF Ti wand for everyting else.  This night, I went with the Zip in hopes of getting faster production times.  (I really wanted to love this wand)

I showed the Zipper to a fellow cleaner that helps me on this job and he took about 3 passes with it, handed it back saying that is skipped too much and used too much water for his small recovery tank.  That was it, 3 passes and his mind was settled, but mine wasn't and I was still excited about this tool.

I had to make another adjustment to the height to rid the chatter from the store front job setting, but then I started making passes.  Again, it cleaned with single passes and it felt smooth with just the location of that solution hose to annoy me.  I really wanted a swivel on the end of the handle like many of the tile spinners have, but again, I strapped it to the vac hose for now.

After the first 2 hours, it was going well until the handle loosened up.  I had to fetch an allen wrench off the truck to tighten things back up, then it was back to work as I started to transition to another part of the building.

When I moved to the other part of the building, the chatter was back and I had to adjust the height for this next span of carpet.  Once it was better, I continued the chore.  It was here that I really started to appreciate the sight tube location.  It was giving me great feedback on the effectiveness of water recovery and I found myslef going back over areas hunting for water pockets in the little dips in the floor.  My production rate was down due to the water hunts, but my effective dry rate was impressive.

After 7 hours on the job, my middle back started to really tighten up.  I had the same problem cleaning with the Steamin Demon when I started out years ago.  With both tools, you tend to clean like you were mowing the lawn.  You hold your arms up high as you push ahead and drop the arms down low as you walk it backwards.  With the arms down low in a relaxed position, I would end up arching my back slightly (not even aware of it at the time) on the backstrokes.  It may just be my ape arms (I was concerned about that when Erik presented this tool) that is the problem, but it was becoming a concern as the night wore on.

Into hour number 8, I needed to tighten up the handle one more time.  If I had some lock-tite on the truck, I would have settled that issue, but I didn't.  It was a minor issue to me.  What wasn't a minor issue to me was that I started to have a qc start to drip at the hose connection.  Those drips would hit me in the thigh due to the location of the connection and that was a problem.  I ended up taking a break to change out the faulty qc and to stretch my back.  Looking back, I think I may have caused that leak by stressing the hose having it strapped out of the way...that swivel would have been nice, I said again.

Over the final hours of this job, I was happy with the way that the wand fit into tight spots and under railings...I didn't think that it would at first.  It continued to clean with single passes and with good dryness with just a sore back as a problem.  All in all, I went through approx. 265 gallons of water...not a small sum, but I have a 210 gallon waste tank and apo, so it wasn't a problem for me, but I would consider it if you are running smaller or else change out the jets.

So, what did I think in the end.  I think that this is a well built tool that fits somewhere between the best commercial wands (PMF Ti) and a good rotary extractor like the RX-20, which I think still digs deeper.  Back when the zipper  was invented, I can see how it would have probably been the best wand out there and just a little shy of the RX-20 in performance, but I think those Titanium wands have closed the gap to the point that the Zipper isn't as dominating now. I think it falls into a niche now for those that need a different motion due to physical deficiencies over the years and can't use a traditional wand any more.

Still, the Zipper is a solid tool that would be a great fit for the right person...I wasn't one of them.  The location of the solution hose connection, the chatter adjustments, the repeated loosening of the handle, and my sore middle back were all detractors for me and enough that I would not purchase one....especially at a price that rivals a good rotary extractor. Now if I had a shoulder or elbow issue....that might be a different story and probably where this tool should be targeted.

Both you and Bill know how to write reviews on a producst very detailed.

What does the tool look like underneath? I would like to see how the jets and vac slots are set up.

Why does it chatter on certain carpets. Too much vac? Is it easy to push? Does it use more water than an RE with the stock jet set up?

Did the tube need a lock nut to prevent it from loosening up?

Does it have a brush attachment?

The only thing I knew about the tool was that years ago cleaners were raving about it for CGD carpet not so much for residential carpet and then it was no longer available for sale to regular cleaners. I think a national company had exclusive rights to it.

I wish I still had the photos, but that was right before I ended up needing to replace my phone...I will look for photo online.

As for the chatter, you need to have the height set correctly or else it will skip. I am not certain why either, might be due to the change in direction and the resulting pull on the head creating more tilt. With a wand, you control the angle on the stroke, with the Zipper, the height adjustment sets the angle. Change the floor conditions...need to change the angle.

No need for a lock nut, it is well designed. I think a little loc-tite was all that was needed. Over a long day of cleaning, it is understandable that something might loosen up...especially when adding heat.

A brush attachement? No...the underneath is an open u-shaped cavity with angle jets facing the front glide...no moving parts.

I remember when it came out, it was the hot topic for sure and I think that it would have been the best choice on cgd for those looking for a wand. Once it went to Cintas under contract, the wand choices for cgd started to improve greatly as the demand for something other than the RX-20 grew.

It really does remind me of the Steamin Demon in a lot of ways. When I started out, that Demon would out-clean any portable easily, a real unique approach. Over the years, that performance gap has changed and now it is more of a niche tool that came with a high price tag. I'm afraid that that the Zipper might fall into that niche category now as well.

Great review!

The Zipper can chatter on some commercial glue down olefin. If that is a problem, you need to replace the slot glide with a hole glide. Problem solved. It will glide with no effort. Single glided wands will have the same problem. The dual hole glides will give you 30 minute dry times which is great for olefin, so it is a win, win. Just take a few minutes to change it out.

I always keep the hose on the left side now. I like it that way better instead of going back and forth. That way you can use your left hand to manage hoses.

I have never had to ever tighten anything up on the Zipper. No advice I can offer with that one.

The height adjustment is not as critical as you might initially think except for commercial glue down.

For me it out cleans a Prochem Ti and my 15 flow CMP14 by a very large margin, magnitudes faster and leaves carpet twice as dry. The RX20 is still the most aggressive rotary on the market. Still the king of rotaries IMO. I am surprised you think a wand could even come close to it or am misunderstanding something?

It's too bad that job was a chatterer and you didn't have a second hole glide. That should have been included and explained. A call to Eric really helps. I hope CleanTech chimes in, he did some comparisons between the Ti and the RC20 as well.

Did you a get a chance to try it on any other jobs?

ill get something in soon. Pretty busy here just checking in on phone

Bill, I wanted to answer your questions on the Zipper.

Although any wand can suffer chatter, I have not had any problems on this contract when using my Ti wand with lip glides, just with the Zipper until I found a good height adjustment. If installing a 2nd holed glide is the cure for chatter on cgd, then it should come set-up that way...it was billed as the best tool for cgd after-all. If that does cure the issue, then it would rid a nagging issue, but who pays for the extra glide...the buyer or the seller? That would need to be worked out.

I never tried it on residential as I was only interested in a commercial usage, but I wish that I had tried it to see how it did in that environment.

I do agree that once dialed in, it did clean better than my Ti wand without needing a dry pass and I do consider the RX-20 superior to both on cgd (I didn't mean to give any other impression). The issue is cost and timing. Did it clean 2x better than my wand? No, it did not. After a dry stroke, the two tools were equal in performance with a speed nod going to the Zipper.

I am not saying that the Zipper is too expensive exactly, for the quality of the build, it makes sense and would be priceless for the cleaner who can no longer use a traditional wand due to injury. The problem is that it may have been king back before the titanium high-flow wands, but now it provides too little of a gain to warrant the price at over 2x the cost in my opinion. Throw it against a quad or the bentley...then it is 2x the wand on cgd, but that isn't the case any more for many cleaners.

Again, I have to keep saying it, I like this tool...I really do, but it is just like the Steamin Demon that I ran with for years in that the equipment market caught up with it and made it less special than when it started. That demon used to dominate the portable world and provide cleaning that could compete with truckmounts in quality, but not any longer and it is no longer worth anything close to the new price....unless it fit a certain niche. The Zipper is still a great performing tool, but I just can't convince myself that it is worth 2x the price of a titanium wand or a used RX-20.

I will be watching to see what the conclusions will be down the road.

Davey Cracker wrote:Well that's just f-u-cking won-der-ful.

I started this $hit, and my chance at trying it is over before it even got within 2000 miles of me.   

Time to make our own I guess, but even better!!!@   

Well Dave, originally I'm not even interested in trying but now seeing all of these loud voices about the zipper, I'm curious, since Bill said that Erik offered a 30 days trial, I don't mind to split the shipping cost with you as long as I don't have to pack that $hit and send it back, I can pick it up and drop it back to your place if you decide to do it, let me know :-)

Now that is teamwork between cleaners...I would be interested in your opinions.

I want to know if I am off my rocker on this one, mostly.

Well apparently the info wasn't 100 % correct, it turned out that you have to pay for the zipper plus the shipping FIRST, so technically it's not a free 30 days trial, but the good news is I'm still intrigue by the wand ( is it considered a wand ? ), a couple questions, from the reviews in here, I think the non bias one only come from Robert, how I get to that conclusion is he mentioned the good and the bad, which is the kind of reviews that I'm looking for.
I'm doing mostly residential and I can't justify buying a tool at $ 2000 ( which I just learned today ) to clean carpets, aside from great drying times ( which is great but I'm sure my customers are not going to notice an extra 2 hours of dry times ) what is / are the other great things about this tool that justify $ 2000 investment ?
Is that a fair question to ask ?

The 2 big selling points for the Zipper is that it is very well built...almost art and the other is the motion if you can't work a traditional wand. Outside of those two things, not much. Actually, if the motion is the key attribute, you would still be better off with a rotary extractor as you should be able to find a good used one for that price. Now if it was priced more towards a high-end wand instead of a powered extractor....then it could be a good option.

When it comes to residentials, I am now convinced that a rotary extractor along with a good wand for tight spaces is the right combination. In fact, using a quality encap as the prespray along with the agitation of a rotary extractor, is probably the best method that I have found on residentials. It just seems to be the perfect meld of the two cleaning methods.

If the dry times are not to your liking with the rotary extractor, you could also groom the carpet with a wand doing dry strokes only after. This has been my method and although a little slower, it ensures that the carpet is really dry when I am done.