Zipper Wand Floater/Loaner

dp1 wrote:Well apparently the info wasn't 100 % correct, it turned out that you have to pay for the zipper plus the shipping FIRST, so technically it's not a free 30 days trial, but the good news is I'm still intrigue by the wand ( is it considered a wand ? ), a couple questions, from the reviews in here, I think the non bias one only come from Robert, how I get to that conclusion is he mentioned the good and the bad, which is the kind of reviews that I'm looking for.
I'm doing mostly residential and I can't justify buying a tool at $ 2000 ( which I just learned today ) to clean carpets, aside from great drying times ( which is great but I'm sure my customers are not going to notice an extra 2 hours of dry times ) what is / are the other great things about this tool that justify $ 2000 investment ?
Is that a fair question to ask ?

I totally agree. why is that, because we know Rob by his contributions on this board. you dont want all reviews from the board, but it helps greatly to have someone you trust to help filter out the bias opinions, or should I say "coached" opinions. Very good point DP, couldnt have described it better. points for you sir

What other cleaners lounge members did the demo? I know it first went to Canada in the beginning of October Clean Tech was the first one to get it, then Bill, then I think it went to Milspec.

Thank you Ryan :-)
I also have more questions if Erik don't mind.
I saw in MB some people bought it at higher price than the listed price now by a couple hundred dollars, even though Joe already mentioned that it was built with quality parts, Erik mentioned lower production cost or something like that motivated the price drop, what kind of production costs lowered ?
I'm sure some potential customers want to make sure that lower production cost does not equal to lower quality parts.

Here's a comment about the zipper from our newest cleaners lounge member Muscle Truck he just registered today.


zipper review
 by muscletruck Today at 8:44
=c0bad2d079e4bcd3b829d84516ea9db3&cvf[1]=dbf328f9f89d93d41cf5fd54080c5840&eval=plus&p_vote=6955]+
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=62d296cfc6c5ef0dc97e05a8231ee8d5&cvf[1]=a45ca5dc01d5cdfb7d887541b3adb987&eval=minus&p_vote=6955]-
Joe set me up trying the smaller zipper the unit is very well built very attractive to the client I'm a 35 year veteran to cleaning carpet and have used a titanium wand pretty much my whole life I think the zipper has a use in a commercial setting over residential for me if the unit had an adjustable handle for tight areas it would be very use able not here to bash anybody products just an honest opinion I'm new to board and am liking it

muscletruckMember


Posts: 2
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2014-01-28
Age: 50
Location: Alexandra mn

The review which follows is from the guy in MO, another honest cleaner. I think his review reads as clearly guarded; way more polite than what I heard from him as his testing was going on. Is he reluctant to give us his opinion because of the way this process was so interrupted by those who who had no right to interrupt? You decide...


First let me say THANKS to Joe for the opportunity to use the Zipper We are glad we did but it arrived on one of the coldest days in 25 years and we did 69 Water Extractions during the time it was here My review of the Zipper is that it is VERY well built and will last for years but it would have to be 20 or maybe 24 inches wide for us to speed up our cleaning. Its a little to bulky for us compared to our 15" PMF Titanium. We can clean a lot of carpet with our Titanium and didn't really notice any faster dry times. We also used at a couple water extractions and seemed awkward to us.
Thanks Dean


Hopefully, you guys can see now what I've been saying all along: to be fair, we must refrain from reviews until all the Reviewers are done, lest the + guys will be seen as biased and the - guys won't even show up except under pressure for fear of retaliation, shame or whatever.

I think we must keep it all quiet til the last test is handed in. I never want any Reviewer to feel like he's 'bashing' anything. We asked for his opinion. Positive or negative, the Reviewers should feel free to state their findings. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, great. Chances are you're not alone in your opinion.
Anybody else have a better way? Speak up. But don't come on here after the fact saying I tried to control you. You agreed to refrain. And don't let any manufacturer persuade you to be irresponsible by breaking your promise. It will just make you both look bad in the eyes of those trying to do an honest review.

Future manufacturers will attempt to interfere with the truth that will come from these Floaters. Expect it. Laugh, go on. Write your reviews. Submit them and rest assured there will be no retaliation from those afraid of the truth that may come from them.
Together we all prosper. From the revelations of these multiple, independent, honest & unbiased reviews we cannot help but be better off for it.

Ryan brings up other good points today for Erik to respond to. Will Erik respond? Or did he & Bill really take their ball & bat and leave in a huff?

Finally, now I know why Mo overrode my request to keep quiet til the end. He felt I like I was holding others back yet I not myself.
He's referring to my 'too narrow for commercial' ... post. Truth is, I'd heard these comments from other real users, none of it was my own observations, rather that of real cleaners with real opinions. There was nothing made up. I was as frustrated as everyone that only the + people were speaking up. But in the end we have some balance.
These Floater Programs will continue in their present form and nobody will change the rules midstream. Understood?

Where we are now: Roland in VA has it.
Then it goes to Ryan & his associates.
Then it's headed across the Midwest, maybe Fuzzsucker, although he does mainly residential. Maybe ??? who knows...
Speak up if you're interested.

Let's keep the program going for my boys Davey and DP in Cali

Next time you use the cleaners lounge floater program try and and send it to cleaners lounge members.

Next time you don't want cleaners to give their evaluations till the end make sure you don't give yours.

Thank you Mo, honestly I'm really really hoping that the reviews are written by the reviewers themselves, not copied by another member, no offense Mo.

And regarding Joe, with all due respect Mr. Bristor, it doesn't look like you're providing a non bias and fair review either sir, so I'm going to ask you respectfully to shut up for a couple days and let these reviewers come out and type their reviews.

I'm also still waiting for Erik to respond and so far it doesn't look good because if it takes this long to answer questions on the board, I wonder how long will it take to get support on the field.

I'm trying to be fair to everyone and not bias in any way, so if I offend anyone in the process, I apologize.

DP that review was written by our newest member (he just registered today) on a different thread. I just wanted to make sure it was in this thread because he was part of the loaner program. Click on the link and you'll see. I agree with you I think its more credible when the participants submit his own review. Anything else is hearsay.

So Joe how many reviews are needed in order for the program to be considered a healthy evaluation? How many reviews do you have to this point.

Mike W needs to be deleted because his is not apart of the loaner review program.

I think I've seen Mike W's review on both the 13" & 15", he's the guy who have both I think ?
I'm actually ok with any reviews as long as it's non bias ones, but if you guys think it should be strictly from the floaters program, then so be it :-)
I think a healthy evaluation should be about 10 or more NON bias reviews, my definition of non bias reviews are there should be at least one or more minor thing that they don't like about it, let's face it, even though you have a 50k truckmount out there, there's gotta be one or more things you don't like about it.
I just got a pmf titanium from Joe a month and a half ago ( the smaller 1,5" one ) so it's not the joe built one, and as light as it is, the pmf soft touch valve sucks big time. <<< just an example of my definition of non bias review :-)

Muscle Man would you mind posting your review on the Zipper on this thread. Everybody that was involved on the Zipper Floater program will be posting there reviews here thanks.

I want to make sure Muscle Man's input is posted here because he was the only non member to test the Zipper that actually registered on the forum and posted a review.

Joe Bristor wrote:


Hopefully, you guys can see now what I've been saying all along: to be fair, we must refrain from reviews until all the Reviewers are done, lest the + guys will be seen as biased and the - guys won't even show up except under pressure for fear of retaliation, shame or whatever.  

I think we must keep it all quiet til the last test is handed in.  I never want any Reviewer to feel like he's 'bashing' anything. We asked for his opinion. Positive or negative, the Reviewers should feel free to state their findings. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, great. Chances are you're not alone in your opinion.  
 

Last fall I had the opportunity to demo a Hoss for a few weeks. Doug AKA Floor Guy had it before me and he told me he did not want to tell me what he thought of it because he wanted me to make my own decisions and opinion of how it worked. it allowed me to try it out and form my own opinion and after I used it, we both talked about what we liked and disliked. I think that is how a loaner program should be. Let the user form there own opinion and not be swayed by what someone said.

TimM wrote:

Joe Bristor wrote:


Hopefully, you guys can see now what I've been saying all along: to be fair, we must refrain from reviews until all the Reviewers are done, lest the + guys will be seen as biased and the - guys won't even show up except under pressure for fear of retaliation, shame or whatever.  

I think we must keep it all quiet til the last test is handed in.  I never want any Reviewer to feel like he's 'bashing' anything. We asked for his opinion. Positive or negative, the Reviewers should feel free to state their findings. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, great. Chances are you're not alone in your opinion.  
 

Last fall I had the opportunity to demo a Hoss for a few weeks. Doug AKA Floor Guy had it before me and he told me he did not want to tell me what he thought of it because he wanted me to make my own decisions and opinion of how it worked. it allowed me to try it out and form my own opinion and after I used it, we both talked about what we liked and disliked. I think that is how a loaner program should be. Let the user form there own opinion and not be swayed by what someone said.

I completely agree !
Also it's been 2 days since I asked my first question and still no answer from mr. Hiltz :-)

I completely disagree that all cleaners are easily influenced by some ones elses review of a product. But I guess some are and Joe has a right to run his loaner program that way he see fit.

DP I doubt that Eric will come back and answer your questions or respond to these reviews and it's a shame because the cleaners lounge members had nothing to do with Joe's blow up with his former partner in the program.

I will make sure to go by his booth today see if I can get some questions answered.

I guess I posted on wrong thread I'm knew to this lounge so bear with me I've been cleaning carpets for over 30 years I tried 13 inch zipper just wasn't for me very nice looking unit well built my opinion is for a lot of wide open commercial carpet it would have its place I've used a titanium all my life just to use to it the zipper skipped around on barber carpet the handle just to long in residential situations but once again very well built unit and for some guys it will be a good fit

Thanks Muscle Man. Out the 10 or so non members that Joe sent the tool to you were the only one to bother to register place a review here. It's much appreciated.

Mo, it's not muscle man, it's muscle truck, lmao   
Anyway muscle truck thanks for your review but from the other reviewers info I thought the handle was adjustable ?

dp1 wrote:Mo, it's not muscle man, it's muscle truck, lmao   
Anyway muscle truck thanks for your review but from the other reviewers info I thought the handle was adjustable ?

The handle was not adjustable, but supposedly the newest version will be. The wheels were adjustable to add or subract the height of the rear glide to change the rake of the head...kind of like a drag car.

Thanks for the info Rob, I'm wondering if the newest version is the one for sale now ?

Well, I am disappointed the "free 30 day trial", isn't in fact what I would consider free at all?  So I'm definitely out on the so called free trial deal with you, DP!...sorry I'm not going to fork out a ton of cash for a 'free trial'.   

I would also like to see some reviews from actual Zipper purchasers, I need more convincing as I'm not going to spend $2500 on a tool I haven't tried, let alone even seen before!!    Because at this point I'm not real sure I'll ever get to try it on the loaner program since the status of that seems a bit fuzzy to me.

I read threw the last couple pages of this thread and didn't see any post from, Erik?.....maybe I missed it, but I thought he was trying to sell, help, and support this?

So, Erik how bout you provide us with some reviews from purchasers of the Zipper other than those on this forum?

And I'm just reading for that first time about making the Zipper less expensive by using cheaper parts??.........what's the deal with that?!?

Erik has it price below 2k now on various sources. I don't know if they have the new changes or not, though. My guess is that Erik has closed his mind to this board and will not be answering any more questions that originate here.

You could try him direct or even off ebay where he has them listed for that lower price.

Yes $2k is where it's at now. The $2500 was the upper end, for retailers; it didn't last. We'd discussed it being set up like the Strong Dry, $2,500 retail then everybody come in under that to sweeten the pot. Like $2300 to $2,100.  I think Olson managed to sell one in that range but then the guy promptly sold it; didn't like the chatter I think was the reason.  $2k now will hopefully help with the remaining inventory.
My Floater is still in VA about ready to move on to Ryan next. Never had 10 users Mo, not before, but the list is over 10 for the trip west. Not many are bulletin boarders though I'll report their findings. At the snail's pace it's going, it'll be Spring before it hits the West Coast. You are right guys, there's nothing free about a 30-day trial type program. A lot of suppliers use it knowing you are what I call 'Postal challenged' and will never return it, especially a big item like a Zipper. That's one big reason for these Floaters in the first place.  Your only outlay is the shipping to the next guy. But I understand you don't wanna wait.  So maybe the 30-day is your answer.  Think of it as a 'Loaner.' You loan the supplier $2,000 but you get it all back (minus interest and shipping) if you don't like it. At least you can get it sooner than later.  
Or here's another one for sale, good deal too: it's a year or two old but still like brand new and it comes with my Wanders Thermometer and two extra brand new glides and an [extra brand new trigger valve.  The owner was asking $2,300 which would have been a good deal based on what he paid for it but now that Erik has dropped the price to $1995 he'll match that price.  Most guys already speak of these units as having good resale value so the used one is probably a better deal.   See what it looks like here. It's pictures  of the one I just bought from Erik. It's the one in black. The used one for sale is just like it.
Erik never told me of any manufacturing changes or increases in sales and we've talked dozens of times over the last few months, but maybe there's things he never told me. Ask him for names of the real cleaners who've bot Zippers over this same period. Ask him for proof of manufacturing changes. He should have Sales Invoices and Purchase Orders for both if it's true.  I really don't know of any changes to the tool.  Only change I know of is the improved jet kit I sold Erik to put on there. Otherwise it's the same tool as in my pictures.  Sure he'll come up with side plates that don't crack so easily. Good news is that he is looking at reducing cost in the future, and maybe he'll pass those savings on to you guys. But that's not gonna help unload the 50-100 he has built up over the last couple of years with Cintas.  Hopefully it stays HOT thru ICE.  Maybe he'll sell em all then have money to start over and build us a Zipper under a Grand. Wouldn't that be nice?  I know a lot of guys who would buy it then. Hopefully that's where this thing goes. Then again, somebody next to Bill up in Calgary will get it and Bill won't be able to use the arrogant bastard approach. But at least it will sell to the masses. I think Milspec and Dustin would both jump all over it at $999.
 
Where is Dustin anyway? He was gonna post his review. Written before Mo popped the cherry on this Floater, it was unbiased and honest. I got to ask him Qs as he was going thru his tests. Plus he did a good video, side-by-side with the RX. Come on out Dustin. It's OK.

One of the reason why I'm still in business through recession is I don't buy tools I don't need and I'm always careful in my spending, and I learned through this forum and last ( realcleaners ) more and more about the suppliers greed, now some people may jump all over at much lower priced zipper ( if it comes down to that ) but if I can't see and compare with my own eyes the expensive version and the cheaper version, there's no way I would drop a thousand bucks on something that I'm not sure will work good, increase productivity, make my life easier, last a while and not breaking down every couple weeks, like my blueline thermalwave II a few years back, but that's just me and my opinion.
I agree with Davey, purchasers testimonials would be helpful, especially considering we can fetch the after sales service experience, however how do we know they're the real deal and not some family or friends ? Sorry Erik, I'm just stating the truth here, I'm interested in finding out more about your product but it seems like it doesn't get any easier, if it keeps going to the same direction I might just let my interest go and wait 'til I try the floater and even then if after sales service is still questionable, I don't think I will pull the trigger.

You popped the cherry on this program Joe when you blew it up by blasting Eric on this forum and they you popped the cherry again when you gave your opinion of the Zipper.

It blows my mind that you continue to insist that guys not give their evaluation when you continue to paraphrased the evaluations of multiple cleaners across the US and Canada that weren't members most of which are negative by the way.